Tenacious_Peaches Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Your two cents is worth at least a buck fifty to me, Master Sir bazooka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Evolution and metamorphosis Hey, that one is good... I might start to like the BB now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 And I knew (I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew) You could make them happy (happy, happy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Very good b-f. You were able to smell my "contempt" of rap music "right from the off". To me it,in many cases,promotes violence and racism and degrades women,yet it is billed as "expression" and sometimes even "art". While other forms of music may promote the same thing's,it is done it in a more subtle way. Not smack the listener over the head with it. I don't think I am the only one here who has ever felt that way about rap music. I will stand by my opinion that in no way,shape or form should any rap/hip hop artist be nominated and certainly not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If you feel that is more "bile",well,sorry about your luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 RE: smelling "contempt" of rap music "right from the off". What I meant by that was: at an early stage in this discussion,long before you laid your cards on the table, I thought to myself "Hello, hello, here we go again...no matter how we conduct this discussion,it's only a matter of time before we have the "anti-rap tirade"- the one that punctuates every thread where rap or hip-hop has ever been discussed on these boards. Thank you for not dissapointing me. To me it,in many cases,promotes violence and racism ...I don't like those features either...I don't think you'll find The Beastie Boys do this kind of thing, though. and degrades women,yet it is billed as "expression" and sometimes even "art". While other forms of music may promote the same thing's,it is done it in a more subtle way. Excellent! I always think it's so much more laudible to make ones misogyny as subtle as possible, don't you? Let's say a big "Hurrah for Rock Music!", because it degrades women subtly. The history of Rock'n'Roll contains a litany of sexism, degradation, misogyny. It's a pretty sexist business all round, or hadn't you noticed? Remove all the sexists, perverts, and miscellaneous macho bullshitters from the picture and what are you left with? *&^%$£" Coldplay, that's what. I'm pretty sure there might even be a few in the R'n'R Hall Of Fame who've degraded some women in their time. "It's A Man's Man's Man's World" - Society as a whole at the very least discriminates against women, and arguably degrades women daily through the way they are represented across all-pervasive media including TV ads, soap operas, billboards, magazine covers, etc. Traditionally, the music biz- including many of its biggest names- has colluded with this oppression in the use of women as glamourous ornamentation in pop videos, album sleeves, or as bit-part actors in sordid tales of rock'n'roll folk-lore, etc.....Fans of rock'n'roll- whatsoever form that elusive beast may take- we all collude in that oppression to some extent or another. I note your ironic mockery of the word "art" being used in relation to rap music. "What is Art?" is a whole new thread obviously, which might become too taxing even for my mighty intellect ( ), but personally, I don't see how any form of musical production is any less "art" than another, simply because it's made by people whose "works", techniques, lifestyles and political views we don't appreciate. I don't think I am the only one here who has ever felt that way about rap music. Indeed not. I will stand by my opinion that in no way,shape or form should any rap/hip hop artist be nominated and certainly not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If you feel that is more "bile",well,sorry about your luck. Nothing wrong with my luck at the moment, but thanks for your concern anyway. (cap-doffing smiley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Excellent! I always think it's so much more laudible to make ones misogyny as subtle as possible, don't you? Let's say a big "Hurrah for Rock Music!", because it degrades women subtly. I wanted to reply to that too, but I knew of course that you would make it much better than I would have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 (edited) Thank you for taking what I said out of context. I think most on here know what I meant by it. Some don't examine every single sentence and words looking for ways to put another poster down. I think this has become something more personal for some and if that is a case,it's a shame that they have nothing more to do than put down somebody's views just because they dislike that persons opinions. I say what I say on here based on what I believe,not to make somebody look stupid. Of course those sorts of things are done by those who feel they are far superior than others when it comes to knowledge. In doing so,they often are the ones who are left looking stupid. Edited October 8, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 no no, I'm not taking it personal blue'n'white and I don't want to put down everything you said, but you really did say that it's better to subtly degrade women compared to the direct, in-the-face style of HipHop music (which I don't approve in any way either ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 no no, I'm not taking it personal blue'n'white and I don't want to put down everything you said, but you really did say that it's better to subtly degrade women compared to the direct, in-the-face style of HipHop music (which I don't approve in any way either ) I think most know what I meant by it. I think during the history of rock music there has been songs that have been somewhat degrading to women. I think most would agree that rap music does it more and it is much more "in your face." Again it's about taking something out of context. I didn't mean that rock music is about the subtle degrading of women. But I think anybody who has listened to rock music knows,in some songs,it has been done.I'm sure it could ge easily "googled" to find exact songs and lyrics to back up my point. But there is no question that rap music does it with a much stronger tone.And I do think this is more of a personal thing than a music thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Intriguing... just Saturday night we were having a round-table discussion of rap music lyrics, and how it is degrading to women. Although rock music can be degrading, as well, I know exactly what blue-n-white means by the fact that rock does it in a more "subtle" manner. Rap music by and large uses vile, vulgar language, and can therefore be interpreted as more violent. Rock, for the most part (in my experience) uses semaphores, metaphors, etc. which women find to be less vulgar/vile, more acceptable. No reasoning here, it's just how we think. It's the difference between some guy at a bar who wants to "pick you up" saying, "Hey, let's go f**k," and getting slapped, or the same guy sitting down, spending time getting to know you, etc. The end result might be the same (fuhgeddaboudit) but there will be no face-slap forthcoming. Remember, guys... we are complex creatures. But creatures we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Intriguing... just Saturday night we were having a round-table discussion of rap music lyrics, and how it is degrading to women. Although rock music can be degrading, as well, I know exactly what blue-n-white means by the fact that rock does it in a more "subtle" manner. Rap music by and large uses vile, vulgar language, and can therefore be interpreted as more violent. Rock, for the most part (in my experience) uses semaphores, metaphors, etc. which women find to be less vulgar/vile, more acceptable. No reasoning here, it's just how we think. It's the difference between some guy at a bar who wants to "pick you up" saying, "Hey, let's go f**k," and getting slapped, or the same guy sitting down, spending time getting to know you, etc. The end result might be the same (fuhgeddaboudit) but there will be no face-slap forthcoming. Remember, guys... we are complex creatures. But creatures we are. Thanks for saying so well what I been trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 And now, Musical Interlude by The Crystals... He hit me and it felt like a kiss He hit me but it didn't hurt me He couldn't stand to hear me say That I'd been with someone new And when I told him I had been untrue He hit me and it felt like a kiss He hit me and I knew he loved me Cause if he didn't care for me I could have never made him mad He hit me and I was glad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 that's a little sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 I think most would agree that rap music does it more and it is much more "in your face." nobody was ever disputing that, right? but you have to realise that there's more than one kind of Hip Hop, and as b-f already pointed out, artists like the Beastie Boys, but also The Roots, The Fugees, etc. or a couple German bands that you've probably never heard about, aren't like that at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_Peaches Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 That's my issue with this whole thing. Yes, a lot of mainstream rap is all about the bling and the hoes, but that doesn't make all rap about the bling and the hoes. Some rock is about devil worshipping and human sacrifice, but that doesn't make all rock about those lovely topics. I just ask for the word "most" in front of the anti-rap statements, leaving open the possibility that there might be one rap act that is not about the bad stuff. The original argument that rap shouldn't be in the RnR HOF is valid. I'm glad I could clear this up for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 nobody was ever disputing that, right? but you have to realise that there's more than one kind of Hip Hop, and as b-f already pointed out, artists like the Beastie Boys, but also The Roots, The Fugees, etc. or a couple German bands that you've probably never heard about, aren't like that at all There are exceptions to anything and everything but I will stand by my original statements about rap music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Intriguing... just Saturday night we were having a round-table discussion of rap music lyrics, and how it is degrading to women. Although rock music can be degrading, as well, I know exactly what blue-n-white means by the fact that rock does it in a more "subtle" manner. And so do I. It is certainly true that rock artists, where they do occasionally promote misogynist views, do tend to be much more subtle about it. (Though the practice of adorning stages, photo-shoots,album sleeves and videos with buxom scantily-clad and voiceless mannequins isn't particularly subtle and is part of rock's heritage since long before the arrival of hip-hop...) What I was questioning was whether subtle degradation is preferable to overt degradation, if the end result is the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Thank you for taking what I said out of context. I think most on here know what I meant by it. Some don't examine every single sentence and words looking for ways to put another poster down. What sort of sad-ass does that? I think this has become something more personal for some and if that is a case,it's a shame that they have nothing more to do than put down somebody's views just because they dislike that persons opinions.This discussion is nothing personal, I am not "putting you down" and, do you know what? I don't even dislike your opinions: I just disagree with some of them, that's all. I say what I say on here based on what I believe,not to make somebody look stupid. Quite right too.... Of course those sorts of things are done by those who feel they are far superior than others when it comes to knowledge. In doing so,they often are the ones who are left looking stupid.If that's directed at me, (which I would quite understand) or referring specifically to my remark that the "What Is Art?" debate might be "too taxing even for my mighty intellect", then I suggest that you are taking this whole thing too seriously and too personally. I put an ironic in there, because I knew it was a preposterous thing to say. For the record, I'm not terribly concerned about looking stupid anyway. After (almost) two years here, I'm sure I have gone to much greater extremes to make myself look totally ridiculous. Good day to you, sire (doffs cap, again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLizard Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 'm not talking about the kind of clothes she wears - look at that stupid girl I'm not talking about the way she combs her hair - look at that stupid girl The way she powders her nose Her vanity shows and it shows She's the worst thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl I'm not talking about the way she digs for gold Well I'm talking about the way she grabs and holds The way she talks about someone else That she don't even know herself She's the sickest thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl Well I'm sick and tired and I really have my doubts I've tried and tried but it never really works out Like a lady-in-waiting to a virgin queen She bitches about things that she's never seen It doesn't matter if she dyes her hair Or the color of the shoes she wears She's the worst thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl She purrs like a pussycat Then she turns around and hisses back She's the sickest thing in this world Look at that stupid girl Rap? Nope. The Rolling Stones. Not even subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_n_white Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 'm not talking about the kind of clothes she wears - look at that stupid girl I'm not talking about the way she combs her hair - look at that stupid girl The way she powders her nose Her vanity shows and it shows She's the worst thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl I'm not talking about the way she digs for gold Well I'm talking about the way she grabs and holds The way she talks about someone else That she don't even know herself She's the sickest thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl Well I'm sick and tired and I really have my doubts I've tried and tried but it never really works out Like a lady-in-waiting to a virgin queen She bitches about things that she's never seen It doesn't matter if she dyes her hair Or the color of the shoes she wears She's the worst thing in this world Well look at that stupid girl She purrs like a pussycat Then she turns around and hisses back She's the sickest thing in this world Look at that stupid girl Rap? Nope. The Rolling Stones. Not even subtle. There's a four year old boy lyin' dead with a slit throat In your living room ha ha What you think I'm kiddin you? You loved him didn't you? No!! Bullsh$it you b*tch don't f#cking lie What the f&cks this guys problem on the side of me F&ck you a#$hole,yeah bite me Kim! Kim! I hate you! I hate you! I swear to God I hate you! Oh my God I love you! How the f&ck could you do this to me? Kim by Eminem Any comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLizard Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Ah, a point you make. Like I said before, though, judge not all of rap by the rap of the new millennium, though. Let's try a rap from the early 80's, for example: Broken glass everywhere People pissing on the stairs, you know they just Dont care I cant take the smell, I cant take the noise Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice Rats in the front room, roaches in the back Junkies in the alley with a baseball bat I tried to get away, but I couldnt get far Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car Chorus: Dont push me, cause Im close to the edge Im trying not to loose my head Its like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder How I keep from going under Standing on the front stoop, hangin out the window Watching all the cars go by, roaring as the breezes Blow Crazy lady, livin in a bag Eating out of garbage piles, used to be a fag-hag Search and test a tango, skips the life and then go To search a prince to see the last of senses Down at the peepshow, watching all the creeps So she can tell the stories to the girls back home She went to the city and got so so so ditty She had to get a pimp, she couldnt make it on her Own Chorus: Its like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder How I keep from goin under My brothers doing fast on my mothers t.v. Says she watches to much, is just not healthy All my children in the daytime, dallas at night Cant even see the game or the sugar ray fight Bill collectors they ring my phone And scare my wife when Im not home Got a bum education, double-digit inflation Cant take the train to the job, theres a strike At the station Me on king kong standin on my back Cant stop to turn around, broke my sacroiliac Midrange, migraine, cancered membrane Sometimes I think Im going insane, I swear I might Hijack a plane! Chorus: My son said daddy I dont wanna go to school Cause the teachers a jerk, he must think Im a Fool And all the kids smoke reefer, I think itd be Cheaper If I just got a job, learned to be a street sweeper I dance to the beat, shuffle my feet Wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps Cause its all about money, aint a damn thing Funny You got to have a con in this land of milk and Honey They push that girl in front of a train Took her to a doctor, sowed the arm on again Stabbed that man, right in his heart Gave him a transplant before a brand new start I cant walk through the park, cause its crazy After the dark Keep my hand on the gun, cause they got me on the Run I feel like an outlaw, broke my last fast jaw Hear them say you want some more, livin on a Seesaw Chorus: A child was born, with no state of mind Blind to the ways of mankind God is smiling on you but hes frowning too Cause only God knows what you go through You grow in the ghetto, living second rate And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate The places you play and where you stay Looks like one great big alley way Youll admire all the number book takers Thugs, pimps, pushers and the big money makers Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens And you wanna grow up to be just like them Smugglers, scrambles, burglars, gamblers Pickpockets, peddlers and even pan-handlers You say Im cool, Im no fool But then you wind up dropping out of high school Now youre unemployed, all null n void Walking around like youre pretty boy floyd Turned stickup kid, look what you done did Got send up for a eight year bid Now your man is took and youre a may tag Spend the next two years as an undercover fag Being used and abused, and served like hell Till one day you was find hung dead in a cell It was plain to see that your life was lost You was cold and your body swung back and forth But now your eyes sing the sad sad song Of how you lived so fast and died so young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 that's a little sick. (ref. "He Hit Me" - The Crystals) I find it an excellent example of degradating lyrics. "This is a man´s world" would be the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 or how about something from the new millenium? In one single moment your whole life can turn 'round I stand there for a minute starin' straight into the ground Lookin' to the left slightly, then lookin' back down World feels like it's caved in – proper sorry frown Please let me show you where we could only just be, for us I can change and I can grow or we could adjust The wicked thing about us is we always have trust We can even have an open relationship, if you must I look at her she stares almost straight back at me But her eyes glaze over like she's lookin' straight through me Then her eyes must have closed for what seems an eternity When they open up she's lookin' down at her feet Dry your eyes mate I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up There's plenty more fish in the sea Dry your eyes mate I know you want to make her see how much this pain hurts But you've got to walk away now It's over So then I move my hand up from down by my side It's shakin', my life is crashin' before my eyes Turn the palm of my hand up to face the skies Touch the bottom of her chin and let out a sigh 'Cause I can't imagine my life without you and me There's things I can't imagine doin', things I can't imagine seein' It weren't supposed to be easy, surely Please, please, I beg you please She brings her hands up towards where my hands rested She wraps her fingers round mine with the softness she's blessed with She peels away my fingers, looks at me and then gestures By pushin' my hand away to my chest, from hers Dry your eyes mate I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up There's plenty more fish in the sea Dry your eyes mate I know you want to make her see how much this pain hurts But you've got to walk away now It’s over And I'm just standin' there, I can't say a word 'Cause everythin's just gone I've got nothin' Absolutely nothin' Tryin' to pull her close out of bare desperation Put my arms around her tryin' to change what she's sayin' Pull my head level with hers so she might engage in Look into her eyes to make her listen again I'm not gonna fuckin', just fuckin' leave it all now 'Cause you said it'd be forever and that was your vow And you're gonna let our things simply crash and fall down You're well out of order now, this is well out of town She pulls away, my arms are tightly clamped round her waist Gently pushes me back and she looks at me straight Turns around so she's now got her back to my face Takes one step forward, looks back, and then walks away Dry your eyes mate I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up There's plenty more fish in the sea Dry your eyes mate I know you want to make her see how much this pain hurts But you've got to walk away now It's over I know in the past I've found it hard to say Tellin' you things, but not tellin' straight But the more I pull on your hand and say The more you pull away Dry your eyes mate I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up There's plenty more fish in the sea Dry your eyes mate I know you want to make her see how much this pain hurts But you’ve got to walk away now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levis Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 It frustrates me and annoys me and generally pisses me off no end to have people say rap is crap when a song like this exists. You don't know anything. (sorry, I'm a bit more intolerant than my fellow SFers who get numerous :bow:s ... especially B-F for not losing patience ) We've all seen the man at the liquor store beggin' for your change The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked, and full of mange He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes "Get a job you f**king slob," is all he replies God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll I'm the man you've been dreaming of." But 3 months later he say he won't date her or return her calls And she swear, "God damn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls." And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walking through the door They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner and they call her a whore God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like I've seen a rich man beg I've seen a good man sin I've seen a tough man cry I've seen a loser win And a sad man grin I heard an honest man lie I've seen the good side of bad And the downside of up And everything between I licked the silver spoon Drank from the golden cup And smoked the finest green I stroked the fattest dimes at least a couple of times before I broke their heart You know where it ends, yo, it usually depends on where you start I knew this kid named Max who used to get fat stacks out on the corner with drugs He liked to hang out late he liked to get sh*t-faced and keep the pace with thugs Until late one night there was a big gun fight and Max lost his head He pulled out his chrome 45, talked some sh*t, and wound up dead Now his wife and his kids are caught in the midst of all of this pain You know it crumbles that way at least that's what they say when you play the game God forbid you ever had to wake up to hear the news 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to lose Then you really might know what it's like Then you really might know what it's like Yeah then you really might know what it's like To have to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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