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Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees...well kind of Rock and Roll!


Sweet Jane 61

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I don't think the name of the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame should be changed, I think the nomination process should be looked at and changed. I was wondering if people such as ourselves could write to the hall and mention our concerns over the whole nomination process, would be interesting to see if we get a reply and what their explanation might be, just a thought...I truly believe over the past few years the members have lost sight of what this was all about from the beginning...rock and roll and it's roots and influences...not pop, not disco, not rap, or anything along those lines. Edna stated way back in the thread that she loved Leonard Cohen but why is he a nominee?? I question that also...we need answers.

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Well after a good night's sleep I am once again here ready to inject my thoughts on some posts that were left in my absence overnight. First,nobody can convince me that "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a rap song. Similiar to rap maybe but I think those who think that it is rap are trying to convince others,and maybe themselves,that rap music and rap artists should be held in the same regard as other musicians including rock,which I of course disagree.I also agree with Lucky that most southerners in the 70's could relate to the "long haired,hippie type pinko fags" of that era and were no doubt a member of that "club",including myself, but not the KU Klux Klan.No confederate or commie flags were ever in my garage,although I knew some folks who proudly displayed the "stars and bars." It is about culture and I have to say I miss the music of that culture and of that era,meaning southern rock,because it just aint bein' made today.

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Well after a good night's sleep I am once again here ready to inject my thoughts on some posts that were left in my absence overnight. First,nobody can convince me that "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a rap song. Similiar to rap maybe but I think those who think that it is rap are trying to convince others,and maybe themselves,that rap music and rap artists should be held in the same regard as other musicians including rock,which I of course disagree.

:doh: :stars: :doh:

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:bow: me too, Blue. There's an entire segment of us that are left out of todays music. Maybe that is really a part the issue, that it's a cultural thing. Martin and b-f can't relate to Skynyrd, or Marshall Tucker for instance, and we can't relate to some of their music. Who knows anymore. I really like Jane's post. The lines have become entirely too blurred. Then again, that is what Rock is all about, isn't it? A rebellion against the norm?

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Oh and also,to those who think country music is just a "cowboy" thing,try listening to Patsy Cline or Martina McBride or Vince Gill. No cowboy hats required.

Southern Rock don't have a thing to do with cowboy.... (see I even type country, at 5:30 am!)

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:bow: me too, Blue. There's an entire segment of us that are left out of todays music. Maybe that is really a part the issue, that it's a cultural thing. Martin and b-f can't relate to Skynyrd, or Marshall Tucker for instance, and we can't relate to some of their music. Who knows anymore. I really like Jane's post. The lines have become entirely too blurred. Then again, that is what Rock is all about, isn't it? A rebellion against the norm?

Well one thing for sure,I will never,EVER,be able to relate to rap or hip hop and I don't consider it music.But I agree that it is,sadly,a part of today's culture.I think southern rock music,while liked by many outside of the south,was and is held dearly to the hearts of those who are from the south and especially to those of us who grew up in the 70's when that music was being made.Lynyrd Skynyrd,of course,will always be at the top of the list and how "the day the music died",for us anyway,was when "The Freebird" went down and crashed.And while I said that I miss the music because "it ain't being made today" I do hear some of it in country acts like Montgomery Gentry,Travis Tritt and of course Van Zant.But it still isn't the same.

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Well one thing for sure,I will never,EVER,be able to relate to rap or hip hop and I don't consider it music.

Don't consider hip-hop to be music??? What level of denial are you in??!

I find it kind of ironic that your signature is a lyric from a rap. You may deny that "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a rap song- we could argue that till the cows come home- but it sure as hell is heavily influenced by rap, which you consider a completely worthless genre.

As I've suggested before in this neck of the woods, "rap" and "hip-hop" are not precisely interchangeable terms. A "rap" refers to a vocal feature and can be performed over music that is not hip-hop, (plenty of examples to go at there), whilst "hip-hop" refers more to musical arrangements - the beats, the samples, the scratch-mixing, the bass parts, instrumentation, etc. and need not be accompanied by a "rap". Hip-hop can often be instrumental, have minimal vocals, make use of borrowed vocal sounds or (brace yourself!) ) proper singing.

Both rap and hip-hop have similar cultural origins, and are relatively cheap ways of creating music, with minimal need for trained musicianship. This has several effects: 1) popularity with young people of impoverished circumstances who want to make music but who are prohibited by the cost of a full band set-up, 2) because of their shared cultural origins, "rap" vocals often accompany hip-hop styles, and the two terms have, over time, become erroneously treated as though they were synonymous.

By way of a light musical interlude: a wonderful rap song which is, by no stretch of the imagination, hip-hop. "Reasons To Be Cheerful"

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I think Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire" was a blatant rip-off of Paul Simon's "You Can Call Me Al" which had come out a year or so before Joel's.

Regarding rap music - and I've said this before - for me it's the lyrics and the attitude that are off-putting. I mean, I love Weird Al's take on "Ridin' Dirty" with "White And Nerdy"! I actually enjoy the music to it... and I would listen to "White And Nerdy" any time, there's no bad language, no one's being threatened. And I like Will Smith's rap - same deal.

I'm not a hip-hop fan just because I don't like that style of music (to me it all sounds the same, blending one after the other and I never know when the next song has started), but I would stop well before calling it not music.

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Give it up, B-F... he's not listening. :P

blue n' white... you're wrong.

(go away with your "you don't respect opinions", or I will call you names :mad: )

I'm not going away. I have as much right to say what I think as anybody else on here. And I'm not in denial,as some claim,just because I think rap isn't music,because in my opinion,yes I said MY opinion,it isn't. I expected to get hammered on that opinion and that is fine but I'm sticking to it. I respect everybody's opinion and I never call anybody names,so I don't know what you mean by that.

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Well, of course you're entitled to your opinion, but it's one thing to describe a genre as "music that is totally rubbish" or "music I really don't like" and quite another to deny that it is actually music. You're flying in the face of demonstrable fact.

To be frank, blue, however respectful we may try to be about each other's opinions, if we start talking patent bollocks, we should naturally expect some flak.

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I think rap isn't music

if you read b-f's post then I certainly agree with you - rap is a singing style, not 'music' per se (did you watch the video he posted, I could give some other examples as well)

but if you, as I believe, meant that Hip Hop isn't Music, then this sentence is VERY WRONG in a fundamental level. You didn't say that you didn't like it, or that it's not "good music", no, you deny it the status of art (again, we're not talking about good art)

the short definition of music according to Wikipedia is

"Music is an art form consisting of sound and silence expressed through time.

Elements of sound as used in music are pitch (including melody and harmony), rhythm (including tempo and meter), structure, and sonic qualities of timbre, articulation, dynamics, and texture."

(for a more complex definition please refer to this article)

it doesn't matter one bit if you like it or not, Hip Hop (or if you want to keep calling it that: "Rap Music") IS music, just like Rock, Classical, Tibetan Monk Chants and Yodeling

I certainly hope that you at least change your opinion about that :P

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if you read b-f's post then I certainly agree with you - rap is a singing style, not 'music' per se (did you watch the video he posted, I could give some other examples as well)

but if you, as I believe, meant that Hip Hop isn't Music, then this sentence is VERY WRONG in a fundamental level. You didn't say that you didn't like it, or that it's not "good music", no, you deny it the status of art (again, we're not talking about good art)

the short definition of music according to Wikipedia is

"Music is an art form consisting of sound and silence expressed through time.

Elements of sound as used in music are pitch (including melody and harmony), rhythm (including tempo and meter), structure, and sonic qualities of timbre, articulation, dynamics, and texture."

(for a more complex definition please refer to this article)

it doesn't matter one bit if you like it or not, Hip Hop (or if you want to keep calling it that: "Rap Music") IS music, just like Rock, Classical, Tibetian Monk Chants and Yodeling

I certainly hope that you at least change your opinion about that :P

I may change my opinion that rap may be a "style" of music if you change your opinion that rap,hip hop,disco artists shouldn't be in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That takes us full circle.

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