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Kurt Cobain - Murder or suicide discussion

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I was just having a debate with a friend over if Kurt Cobain was murdered or if he commited suicide, I personally think that he was murdered for a number of reasons, whether it was Courtney Love or not (i believe that she had a hand in his death wether he pulled the trigger himself or not, but that's just me if you really want to hear me rant go ahead and email me) but anyway I was just interested in what everyone else thought

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Let me preface my post by saying that I was a Nirvana fan and firmly believe that Nirvana's music single-handedly changed the musical landscape of the early 90's.

I don't believe nor have I ever heard the rumor that he was murdered. I firmly believe that it was suicide brought on by depression, drugs, etc. What would Courtney have to gain by having him murdered? It's a sad tale of a life cut too short.

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Hey eggplant i would send some facts about cobain's death that support the idea of murder, but unfortunately you're not accepting private messages and at this point i don't feel like ranting publically (not sure how to spell that) and Nirvana is like my favorite band of all time

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actually Love did have something to gain, her inheritance. You see there's this rumor (very possible rumor at that) that Cobain saw his legal affairs lawyer shortly before his death (within days) and many people speculate that it was to discuss having Love cut out of his will, so that could be a reason that Love would have killed him or hired someone to kill him. Then this other interesting fact (nothing related to what i just said) the shotgun that killed Cobain was loaded with three shells. WHY??!!!! most people who dilebarately shoot themselves (shotguns especially) only load the gun with one bullet to save time, and it's unlikely that those shells were leftover from previous use for a couple reasons 1) Almost everyone knows not to keep a gun loaded 2) Cobain wasn't much of a gun person (he was totally against violence, listen to the song "In Bloom") so I doubted that it was for hunting or anything, in fact the whole fact that he was shot already throws contreversy on his death because he just wouldn't own a gun though he might of just bought it to shoot himself, or maybe it was for self-defense, someone should look that up. You see that little bit right there is a major reason that I believe that Kurt Cobain was killed.

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Interesting theory. I really don't know a whole lot about the issue. I can see how she would have something to gain from his death. I remember recently her and Dave Grohl and Chris what's-his-name were embroiled in a legal battle over the Nirvana catalog, I believe.

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Yeah they were (it's Chris Novaselic by the way)it was about using smells like teen spirit in the movie "moulin Rougue" Love wanted them to be able to use the song but Grohl and Novaselic didn't want them to, you see Love probably wanted Kidman's part, Moulin Rougue got the song though (sadly)

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I think there's a strong case for both sides of the argument. For suicide, there's the severe stomach problem he had (although I think I heard somewhere that was cured at some point) and of course the issues he had with being in the public eye, along with everything else you've heard before.

But, there's also a lot of evidence for murder. For example, in his supposed suicide note, the only part of it that clearly refers to suicide is at the end of the note, and this part is in drastically different handwriting (experts have analyzed it extensively). Many believe that he was planning on retiring, and in that context, the note (aside from the ending) makes much more sense. A lot of fans think that this is how Courtney may have been involved. Kurt would be worth more to her dead than alive. I don't really believe that completely, but I do think that, if he was murdered, she had a hand in it. Also, there was something like three times the amount of heroin in his body that would incapacitate the heaviest addict within seconds. So, how would he have the strength to pick up the gun and shoot himself? Also, his credit card, which was found in his wallet with his body, was used days after he was shot.

Also, a private investigator was hired by Courtney to try to find Kurt after he escaped from the rehab/detox centre in L.A. The investigator searched every room in the house except the room above the greenhouse (which was where the body was found). The male nanny of the house helped with the search of the house, and didn't say anything about the greenhouse. Because of this, a lot believe he could have been involved with the possible murder. Finally, the police reports were done very carelessly, because they thought that it was a suicide, case closed. There's other things too, like the position of the gun (across Cobain's body) and the fact that there were no fingerprints on the gun.

Personally, I'm not completely sold on it, but I think he was murdered.

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yeah you mentioning the heroin reminded me of something too supposedly his heroin stuff (needle, bottle, etc) were all found put neatly in a box that he kept his drugs and stuff in (might of been dedicated to heroin complete, I'm not sure) but if he did have all that heroin, how could he have put all that stuff away so neatly, i mean his hands had to at least be shaking as bad as ozzy's do now

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im sorry, i don't understand what the big deal is, how come whenever a star dies it was a conspiricy, or something like that, we just can't say he overdosed and blew his goddanm head off if a fit of depression, kurt cobain died, get over it.

its not like his music was really that great, the musical part was good, but it in no way makes up for the horrible lyrics that he wrote, and i like nirvana

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I remember Courtney being mentioned for the part in Moulin Rouge, but I thought the lawsuit stemmed from adding an unreleased song to a potential box set or something like that.

If it was indeed murder and not suicide, then there would have to be a major coverup on the part of the police. The forensic evidence would have had to point to murder. From what I understand, it is extremely hard to make a murder look like a suicide. They would examine the placement of the gun (mentioned earlier), the blood spatter pattern, toxicology data of the victim, etc.

It's all very interesting to me. Not from the fact that I worshipped Kurt and can't get over that he's gone. I guess I'm somewhat of a conspiracy buff. It just makes for interesting discussion. It was a shock when it happened because I was a pretty big fan of their music, but that's about where it ends. Same thing when Layne Staley OD'd. And I was a much bigger Alice In Chains fan than Nirvana.

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From what I've heard/read about it, the police, along with many other specialists didn't want to get too involved with the case, since it would be so high-profile. This is mostly still the case now.

There are a lot of details about the police report and stuff like that floating around the net (actual sites, not just speculation). If anyone's interested, I can give a few links and info.

I was, and still am, a huge Nirvana fan, but I don't really feel cheated or anything like that. Like Eggplant, I'm just interested in unsolved mysteries and conspiracies and all those fun things. Especially with this case, because there are so many aspects to what might have happened.

Also, horrible lyrics? Maybe I'm just disillusioned, but I find that the lyrics are some of the best I've heard...except for Smells Like Teen Spirit.

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aneurism you totally rock, you're totally correct when you say that Nirvana had some of the best lyrics (pennyroyal tea, heart shaped box, come as you are, and dumb, just to name a few) then to the person who totally dissed all of us conspiracy people, you kind of brought up an interesting point probably without knowing, when you say he OD'd and shot himself, that's kind of what happened, except it would be kind of hard to shoot yourself in the head when you just overdosed (not saying it's impossible just unlikely)

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Just adding to great lyrics list: D7, Clean Up Before She Comes,Rape Me,and Frances Farmer Will have Her Revenge On Seattle.Plus Kurt was happier than he had ever been, someone commented once (i cant remember for the life of me who,but they were close to Kurt) that if he had shot himself a year earlier they would have belived it,but he was happier than hed ever been till then. I reccomend you read the book "Who Killed Kurt Cobain?",they look into all logical possibilities, and go to Justice For Kurt .

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All of this is interesting, but I haven't found any really convincing clues towards murder. Cobain certainly could write lyrics, and Heart Shaped Box was a great song. By the way Scott, I don't find the thing about removing Love from his will very convincing. I mean that's a pretty drastic reaction. Well, whatever, I probably won't talk to much more about this, but debate away, Nirvana Lovers!

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There are so many facts that point to murder then again suicide does make sence. For the simple fact if it was suicide Courtney made him feel so unloved that he pulled the trigger. Then again all these signs point to murder and if so I don't think she had enough guts to do it herself. Though I believe she may have arranged it. :beady:

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This is my 3rd post but its coz im in the mood. anyways what do u guys think about kurt cobains death? i tink courtney loe hierd a hitman and yea wat are you guys thoughts?

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From what I've heard, I don't believe all the conspiracy theories. Maybe you know something I don't. There are similar things in hip hop circles, such as the idea that 2Pac faked his own death (I don't believe that either).

Courtney Love is a lot of things, but I very much doubt she's a murderer.

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Courtney Love is a lot of things, but I very much doubt she's a murderer.

True, true.

Also, IMO, she's totally unconvincing. I believe if she had indeed been party to his (supposed) murder she would have cracked during interrogation.

Now being partner to his suicide is another thing altogether. Wouldn't you contemplate taking your own life if you had to live with her? :laughing:

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honostly i think he was murdered i mean think of how long the barrel of a shot gun is that [bleep] would be a little difficult to aim were it hit and didnt two shots come out please tell me how you can shoot yourself twice with a shotgun a little shady i think so

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I admit, it's hard to manipulate a shotgun for one's own suicide but there are hundreds of examples. I'll save the gory pictures because this is a music forum not Ogrish.com. :P

The weekend prior to his suicide Kurt was in the hospital recovering from a failed (self admitted) suicide attempt from a heroin overdose.

He admitted a few times that he was going to take his life.

Anything is possible but as of now I have no other recourse than to believe that he took his own life.

It is my hope that all who think otherwise will take it upon themselves to do something other than talk about it. Propaganda is nice if facts are found.

Find them and prove he didn't do what he said he was going to do.

The best of luck in your pursuit.

=:P

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