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Disco died pretty quick...why is Rapp still alive?


Mike

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As a broadbrush statement, that sure discredits the lyricists.

How does that discredit the lyricists more than this:

I just find it impossible to listen (and perhaps you do too) to a piece that invokes accolades upon the lyricist...But spare me the egoists or snarling dogs who seem to profit from pain while offering little but condemnation to a society that may not be perfect, yet is so forgiving as to bind the blind in chains of gold.

My point is that 95% of the rap you hear on the radio represents probably less than 20% of what's actually out there. Programmers and record labels know which stuff sells, so they smack you in the face with it constantly. The same goes for rock, country and pop.

... which is an anthem of how to get into Folsom prison. Meryl Haggard and others predate Johnny Cash in that mournful department:

"I turned twenty-one in prison doing life without parole/No one could steer me right, but Momma tried,Momma tried."

Both of which are a far cry from "Cop Killer" that esteems violence as a source of pride.

"Cop Killer" is quite an extreme example. Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash talked about going to jail; a lot of rappers talk about going to jail. How is it different? Is it because rappers use curse words? The methods may be a little more modern, but the general idea is the same.

Anyway, the Johnny Cash comment was a joke in the first place. :)

Edited by Guest
Stupid quotes won't work, or I'm an idiot.
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I know rock n roll will never die, disco went (it took longer than expected) but Rapp (talking w/chapachu's in between about nonsense- w/o a shred of "actual" music) won't go quitely into that good night. WHY?

It's bad enough that pop has gone the way it has, (don't get me started on that) but even that is somewhat listenable in some cases, but Rapp is just, bad. In my opinion.

Rap: Why does it arouse such ire?

I'm certainly not accusing anybody of conscious racism, but the question as originally posed (cited above) appears to me at least to be slanted in a particular way as to suggest "white music = good, black music = bad". There, I've said it. It's like lancing a boil.

You don't get my drift? Whilst white-boy rock'n'roll is destined to "never die" (Hurrah!), there is a definite implication that disco outstayed its welcome, and that rap inexplicably continues to do so. Why bring up the subject of disco, if not to emphasise that it's predominantly black music that sticks around longer than it really ought to?

(I could take issue with the suggestion that disco ever died, but that's another story...perhaps worthy of a separate analysis, elsewhere?)

It has been articulately pointed out already that perhaps "we" don't "get" rap/hip-hop, if we don't happen to fit its target demographic, in the same way as I struggle to get my head round Country & Western, (so beloved in the States but a mystery to most elsewhere), and Victorian fathers failed to "get" punk-rock. With "young people's music", its often the exclusivity, the "speaking in tongues", the very features that serve to alienate the older generation, that give the music/image its appeal. Increasingly,"older people"(such as myself!)insist on trying to remain "hip" and "with it", blurring the generation gap and making it increasingly difficult for the youth to have their own thing....Violation of the straitjacket of political-correctness, the adoption of extreme and unpalatable imagery that alienates an increasingly broad-minded adult audience is one of the few (supposedly) "rebellious" options left to "the youth".

The point has already been made that whilst poor rap/hip-hop, (actually distinct from one another), may appear to be ubiquitous, this is largely attributable to market forces. There is significantly better music to be heard from these genres, but often one needs to cut through the crap to find them. Even though the genres are apparent polar opposites, I suspect the same may apply to C&W.

As for any feeble "it all sounds the same" grumbles... :sleepy: , well, i've been into reggae/dub since I was 14,and have lost count of the times i've heard the tiresome lie that all reggae sounds the same...As Penny Rimbaud of UK anarchist band Crass once sagely pointed out, "all bird-song sounds the same, if you don't listen to it".

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I'm certainly not accusing anybody of conscious racism, but the question as originally posed (cited above) appears to me at least to be slanted in a particular way as to suggest "white music = good, black music = bad". There, I've said it. It's like lancing a boil.

What about Motown then? We all love it. Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Jimi Hendrix, Ike&Tina...

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I think there are several ways to answer that, Edna.

1. The stuff you mention is all very melodic vocally, whereas rap isn't generally considered so. The melody lies elsewhere, typically in the instrumental bed. I'm not sure why people seem to think that something isn't musical if there isn't a sung melody line (also known as "pitched mouth noises").

2. Motown, etc., is classic - most everyone here grew up with it, or have at least heard it since birth. Rap & hip-hop are relatively new, at least in the current incarnation.

3. The subject matter of Motown, early R&B, etc. may be mildly suggestive at times (just like early rock & roll) but isn't considered "threatening". Rap today (just like rock & roll today) can be overtly suggestive and a little intimidating in its subject matter.

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I was merely pointing out that I found the phrasing of the question rather puzzling, in its apparent celebration of the invincibility of rock'n'roll, and simultaneous condemnation of disco (for no apparent reason) and rap.

I wasn't suggesting that all (white) people who don't like rap are racists who have a blanket dislike of all black music. I don't think I said or implied that, did I??? I hope I haven't given that impression: it certainly wasn't my intention.

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I was not going to post again on this thread but I just have to! I don't care if the person doing rap/hip-hop is black, white, red, green, blue, or whatever, I don't care for it. I have heard enough in my time of various types of this music, and it is not something I can't connect with. It has nothing to do with the race of the artists. I don't like the music or the lyrics, even if they aren't offensive. And I have a right not to like this music, just as some of you have the right to like it! This is just my opinion and I am expressing it, which is what we do here, right??

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blind-fitter, it sounds to me like you're labeling disco as "black music" for the sake of your argument. I'm not entirely sure that's an accurate assesment. I think disco was more of a phenomenon of the times rather than a certain race's influence on music. Also, I think you're assuming that the original post was insulting disco because it was "black music". I think the original post was insulting disco because the poster disliked it. Reading more than that into it is, in my opinion, a bit much. I think you're lancing a boil that turned out to be just a mole. :D

As for rap, me, I just don't get it. I don't hate people who do like it, I just don't like it, so I pretty much ignore it. I'm not going to attempt to like it just because so many other people do. That's just silly. I'll listen to what I like, you listen to what you like, and we'll both be happier for it. If someone says "you gotta hear this song" and plays a rap or hip-hop song, I'll listen to it. I may or may not like it, chances are, given past attempts, I will not like it, but I'll give it a listen. I know what it's like to really enjoy a song or artist and try playing it for someone and just not understanding why they don't like it as much as I do.. But that doesn't make me judge them any differently.

It's just a matter of taste.

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It just might be that perhaps there is a greater degree of enjoyment in hearing a lyric sung well, as opposed to hearing one spoken well.

And daslied, I appreciated the humor in your Johnny Cash comment. It just got me thinking about the theme of crime and I went apologistic from there.

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blind-fitter, it sounds to me like you're labeling disco as "black music" for the sake of your argument. I'm not entirely sure that's an accurate assesment. I think disco was more of a phenomenon of the times rather than a certain race's influence on music. Also, I think you're assuming that the original post was insulting disco because it was "black music". I think the original post was insulting disco because the poster disliked it. Reading more than that into it is, in my opinion, a bit much. I think you're lancing a boil that turned out to be just a mole. :D

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Yeah, you're probably right.

I stayed out of this discussion for so long, because...

a) it's only a couple of months since the last anti-rap/hip-hop thread, which contained by and large, exactly the same arguments/opinions, expressed by roughly the same people, and

B) What have the immortality of rock and the shelf-life of disco, (implicitly "too long"), got to do with the longevity of rap? I was trying to make some sense of this non-sequential statement. Maybe I'm on the wrong medication?

What you have said here makes sense. I have probably goofed big-style. I realised this earlier and wished I could retract my post, but by this time, other people had responded to it, so the whole thread would lose sense.

In failing to express my confused interpretation adequately, I have perpetuated misunderstanding, done everyone a disservice and generally "dropped a bollock",(as we say round our way). Apologies all round. :blush:

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I don't think Rock n' Roll will never die, just because it's been around longer. For all you know it's already dead to the outside world. Just because we know what rock is and we don't really know what rap is we can't really come to a conslusion as to which is dead and which is alive. I'm pretty sure disco lives on in many homes. Genres don't really 'die' do they?

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I know about that... I was just saying that racism has no big thing to do about music, we might not like rap, but it´s not for being black music, there is some other black music -good music- we love.

I totally agree, Edna. I don't think anybody here dislikes rap solely because it's predominately the domain of black artists, but I'm sure there are people out there who feel that way. Which is just dumb.

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If being used once is the only qualification, then sure.

"To go Paul Edward": to place any and all blame on faceless entities with a modicum of power and influence. To claim wild conspiracy theories but later retract them in the name of "just testing the waters".

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(Musical Interlude)

with apologies to David Byrne and Talking Heads

I can't seem to face up to the facts

I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax

I can't sleep, bed's on fire

Don't touch me I'm a real live wire

Psycho Killer

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa, better

Run run run, run run run away

Psycho Killer

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better

Run run run run run run run away

You start a conversation you can't even finish it.

You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything.

When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.

Say something once, why say it again?

Psycho Killer,

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa, better

Run run run run run run run away

Psycho Killer

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa, better

Run run run run run run run away

Ce que j'ai fait ce soir-là?, Ce qu'elle a dit ce soir-là?

Realisant, mon espoir,

Je me lance vers la gloire... Ok

We are vain and we are blind

I hate people when they're not polite

Psycho Killer,

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa, better

Run run run run run run run away

Psycho Killer,

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa, better

Run run run run run run run away

Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh...

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"To go Paul Edward": to place any and all blame on faceless entities with a modicum of power and influence. To claim wild conspiracy theories but later retract them in the name of "just testing the waters".

At the risk of wading into an already fished stream, might I suggest for the sake of brevity, duality of meaning and full recognition to Mr. Wegemann, that the term be shortened thus, "To go PEW." That would be one who is PEWing, or attempting to PEW.

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