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johnnyguitar

Write a song together

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I agree S2V...too many cooks spoil the soup as they say...or something like that...lol...and I believe only the person writing the poem knows their own true feelings....like you said it usually is limited to the writer and the musician.

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Perhaps now, John, you have begun to learn why writers generally merely ask for spelling, grammar usage and puncuation corrections, if seeking any advice whatsoever.

Quite right. I write for me alone. And I am my own harshest critic. If I'm satisfied with a piece, then that's enough for me. Others can like it or no, it says what I wanted it to say, and that means I accomplished my goal.

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I've been working on our song a bit this week. And this is what I've come up with...

Tongue-tied, Ham-fisted (this is only a suggestion; I didn't rate the original title much)

Watching as the sun goes down across the torrid sea,

Picturing you going down, going down on me.

We share a frisson

When we're being furtive...

And God I love it girl,

When you talk to me dirty..

I'm way too clever, and, honey, you're too easily impressed..

Nothing's for ever...maybe we should both just get dressed.

The passage of the sun makes me demonise

(*Desperate seamen cling to their vessel for dear life*)

Tossed asunder by wave after guilty wave,

As alone I stroke the oar, imperfect rhythm

Like some god-forsaken slave....

I'm not quite clever enough, honey,and you're too easily seduced,

Whichever way I look I can't see if I'm a user, or if I'm the one that's being used.

She says "Dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps,

They visit you at night...then vanish with your sleep.

One moment so real

Then surreal...it's absurd

"Take me while you have the chance" might be

The Worst Advice I Ever Heard.

Thought I was clever...you're easily impressed

Between you and me, babe, we're a right (bleeping) mess...

I'll straighten my tie, button up my shirt (fly??)

You put on your pixie boots, unruffle your skirt

A lingering kiss at the schoolyard gates,

Then I return to the kitchen.......

* Think of this line in brackets as a murmured backing vocal, otherwise the verse isn't going to scan at all (too many lines)

-------------------------------------------------

To be honest, it suffers from trying to retain some of the original imagery and metaphors, scansion and rhythm. But hey ho,there y'go.

Some may argue that there is till too great an adherence to "rhyme" and that it doesn't apparently scan very well. But if you listen to Nick Cave, how he constructs lines and verses out of similarly unwieldy sentences..well I think it could be done. In fact I can imagine Old Nick (when in lugubrious mood, a natural successor to Leonard Cohen, ) wrestling with this one, I really could. Heck, I may even send him a copy to see what he thinks...

I realise it has digressed somewhat from some of the sentiments of the original. In one of my "posts that went missing", I talked of jettisoning self-conscious attempts at wistfulness / poignancy (which tend to result in resort to tired cliche), in favour of a more pragmatic and emotionally honest account. This version may be way off the mark, of course: I've sort of combined ideas from the old song I wrote about not dissimilar circumstances (to which I alluded in an earlier post) with some of the "plusses" from our version here.

I dispensed with the "Tongue-tied and twisted" motif, cos, frankly, I thought it sucked. (meaningless, pointless cliche) So it was meant to be the "hook-line"???...it still sucked.

Obviously, this lyric is a lot less sentimental, less likely to appeal to those of "romantic" disposition. It moves away from the "torn between two lovers" schtick towards reflection upon the impetuousness (foolishness??) of this "dangerous" (possibly slightly sordid?) dalliance...As we've gradually gathered more insight into the situation, I'm not sure whether this angle is so inappropriate??

I have eschewed any sentiments that were simply too nauseating for words, like the whole of the last verse for example:"a million miles away another smiles for me, and I could never hurt her...etc, etc." GAK!

Maybe too much has been changed and this is just "a different song"??? I'd be interested to hear your comments: I haven't written a song for eight years or more, so I'm a bit ring-rusty!

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In fact I can imagine Old Nick (when in lugubrious mood, a natural successor to Leonard Cohen, ) wrestling with this one, I really could. Heck, I may even send him a copy to see what he thinks...

Was I the only one who had an "Adrian Mole" moment there...

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Maybe too much has been changed and this is just "a different song"??? I'd be interested to hear your comments:

I don't think you will be hearing the answer for a little while.

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I've been working on our song a bit this week. And this is what I've come up with...

Tongue-tied, Ham-fisted (this is only a suggestion; I didn't rate the original title much)

Watching as the sun goes down across the torrid sea,

Picturing you going down, going down on me.

We share a frisson

When we're being furtive...

And God I love it girl,

When you talk to me dirty..

I'm way too clever, and, honey, you're too easily impressed..

Nothing's for ever...maybe we should both just get dressed.

The passage of the sun makes me demonise

(*Desperate seamen cling to their vessel for dear life*)

Tossed asunder by wave after guilty wave,

As alone I stroke the oar, imperfect rhythm

Like some god-forsaken slave....

I'm not quite clever enough, honey,and you're too easily seduced,

Whichever way I look I can't see if I'm a user, or if I'm the one that's being used.

She says "Dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps,

They visit you at night...then vanish with your sleep.

One moment so real

Then surreal...it's absurd

"Take me while you have the chance" might be

The Worst Advice I Ever Heard.

Thought I was clever...you're easily impressed

Between you and me, babe, we're a right (bleeping) mess...

I'll straighten my tie, button up my shirt (fly??)

You put on your pixie boots, unruffle your skirt

A lingering kiss at the schoolyard gates,

Then I return to the kitchen.......

* Think of this line in brackets as a murmured backing vocal, otherwise the verse isn't going to scan at all (too many lines)

-------------------------------------------------

To be honest......

....Maybe too much has been changed and this is just "a different song"??? I'd be interested to hear your comments: I haven't written a song for eight years or more, so I'm a bit ring-rusty!

Hey,Johnnyg! Since I put quite a bit of time and effort into this, and now that you're posting again: how about some feed-back? :P

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Your wit and withering scorn have broken me,

I have given up any idea that I could ever write a song that others might appreciate,

I may well burn my guitar...

you're right, I am a talentless charlatan... :(

A new song? :thumbsup:

It's coming along nicely. The second line is a bit cumbersome, (needs some work), but at least you seem to have given up on rhyme, which is a step in the right direction.

A bit of an "emo" vibe going on there, johnny? ;)

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FOUND IT!

Was my contribution restricted to unreserved, merciless criticism, or did I, in fact, make repeated constructive efforts to contribute to the improvement of the song?

Have I been too harsh?

I say: LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE!

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Watching as the sun sets across the open sea

I never told you sunsets do strange things to me

Stare across the distance...with my fingers in your hair

Then I turn to kiss you....and you're not there.

...and I'm tongue tied, tongue tied and twisted over you...

...and scared of all the things that we might do.

I'm tongue tied and twisted while you're crying in the night

I know that this feels good...but I know that it's not right...I'm tongue tied and twisted...and scared of all the things that we might lose.

I'm tongue tied and twisted...and I know one of us must choose.

She says 'dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps.

They visit you at night....then vanish with your sleep.

Too painful to hang on to

Too precious to release'

What do I do...?

Dive into your ocean.....crash upon your shore?

Dive into your ocean...but, can I swim there anymore...?

******************************

johnyguitar, this song is beautiful, and LEAVE THE LAST VERSE AS IT IS. the only verse that im a bit worried about is the second, as it is a fusion of simple rhyming and cliches, such as the line "I'm tongue tied and twisted...and scared of all the things that we might lose.

I'm tongue tied and twisted...and I know one of us must choose."

but then again, maybe its just me.

but the rest of it is amazing, and dont listen to anybody that puts you down because this song is brilliant.

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Hah...! I told you I wasn't a complete moron. Thanks for that Murdocking. I do think that cliches play a slightly more elevated role in song lyrics than in poetry. IMHO poetry should endeavour to avoid cliches at all costs :doh: but there is some latitude on song lyrics for twisting well worn phrases into newer metaphors so, hearts don't get broken any more, they get skewered, diced, ripped, etc. and if you can think of a great new adjective then hurrah!

On re-reading the original though, it does rather rely on somewhat tired similies :blush: and BF's comments of a year or so ago were quite funny, so perhaps I was being over sensitive to his carping sarcasm. :D

Thanks for the positive comments. It does have quite a nice tune too....which makes all the difference. Even a cliche can sound good if it has a nice tune. :cool:

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Hah...! I told you I wasn't a complete moron.
I don't believe I ever suggested you were a complete moron. ;)

I do think that cliches play a slightly more elevated role in song lyrics than in poetry. IMHO poetry should endeavour to avoid cliches at all costs :doh: but there is some latitude on song lyrics for twisting well worn phrases into newer metaphors so, hearts don't get broken any more, they get skewered, diced, ripped, etc. and if you can think of a great new adjective then hurrah!

I'm not disagreeing with the main thrust of your contention. Even so, is it not the case that- no matter how imaginative the metaphor, the degree of adjectival brutality conjured up in relation to the pain of lost love, etc.- any lyrical effort which equates the emotional feeling we refer to as "love" with "the heart" merely sustains the oldest and most unimaginative of all lyrical cliches? (In keeping with the theme I should have said "the oldest cliche in the book" :doh: )

Vital though it is to the functioning of the body, the heart has no specific, proven engagement with our emotional processes. Any suggestion to the contrary is purely speculation based upon sentimentality. I don't know about anyone else, but at times of relationship-related torment, it's generally the head (ie the mind) that suffers the anguish, not the heart. Oh, and then there's that curious feeling of disembowelment.

On re-reading the original though, it does rather rely on somewhat tired similies :blush: and BF's comments of a year or so ago were quite funny, so perhaps I was being over sensitive to his carping sarcasm. :D

Indeed.

Incidentally, it's similes, johnny, similes.

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Vital though it is to the functioning of the body, the heart has no specific, proven engagement with our emotional processes. Any suggestion to the contrary is purely speculation based upon sentimentality.

I would heartily ( :D ) disagree with this sentiment. You may not have experienced it, but I certainly have. My heart goes all over the place when I'm in love....I have christened it 'heart wheeling'...happens all the time to me. Extraordinary feeling! Hearts flutter, pound and sink (although it sounds that you may experience this in a more visceral way...in your bowels) and they certainly don't seem to be controlled by our brains...not mine anyway. ;)

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