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johnnyguitar

Write a song together

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If we can put ourselves in someone in the song's shoes, it would mean more (if you get what I mean).
Good point, I'm sort of seeing it from the 'meta' position, expecting the listener to sympathise with both their plights...but maybe we've got to side with one or the other...a more...'torn between two lovers' scenario rather than a 'no-one's looking, hows about it then?' vibe...but I want folk to empathise with the situation, rather than the protagonists....does that make any sense at all? :puppyeyes:

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I don't think you want to tell the whole story, or just to purely evoke an emotion, do you?....you want a happy medium...

That's entirely the point :thumbsup: I want to 'allude', 'hint at', 'sketch the vague outline' of the scenario...then the listener can twist it to their own experiences...but it does need to evoke more than just the 'emotion of recognition'...it needs to be sad/hopeful or sad/hopeless...but powerful, one has to empathise with the characters....how?

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Obviously, or at least traditionally, the "I" is the character deserving of the empathy. The unnamed third party would be the villain. I suppose "She" could be considered innocent, but in a tryst such as this nobody's really innocent.

An interesting take would be someone other than "I" being the tragic hero of the whole thing.

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Yes, but in the confines of a pop song you have to choose between telling a broad story loosely or a more narrowly focused story very well. Typically.

So you have to pick your poison. (Unless you're into 15-minute rock operas, and I'm down with that.)

Do you want to tell the listener what to think, or do you want them to come up with their own meaning? There's nothing wrong with leaving things to the imagination.

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Ah. I misunderstood; I thought you were talking about a tome about each of the central characters. Which, as we all know, wouldn't sit well with the attention spans of today's youth. How did I get this old this young?

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Don't be perturbed. I do not read the forums in threaded mode, I merely reply to the last post in the thread. Always have and always will, as do most people.

I also did qualify my post was in reference to the song which is what this thread is about to the best of my knowledge.

Please, do not take things so personally :)

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It's about two people thinking about themselves...should they meet and risk one kiss (which they know would happen...)that will definitely turn their lives upside down...discarding what they already have...but possibly finding something in each other that they have been longing for.

If people really need to be shown as 'villains or innocents', then they are both villains...but the point of the song is about should they or shouldn't they? Not how would my existing partner feel about it, because we already know that answer.

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Right...I've been painting in a confined space all morning (one coat gloss, my a$$) and I think the fumes may have got to me...however, it has helped me with the plot...first...got to decide whether it is a story or a 'letter' (ie...who's the narrative for? is it just the wistful tale of starcrossed lovers and guilt...or is it a message for someone in particular. i.e. is he just saying 'poor pitiful me'....or is he saying 'I'd love to...but'?

Also...he is the villain/idiot/twazzock/wistful plonker who you'd like to smack in the teeth...how does one avoid making such a fool too repellant?

The fumes, the fumes.... :stars:

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He is saying "I know it is wrong and I shouldn't have let things get as far as I have, but since they have got to this point, it feels like the point of no return."

But it is not.

He can cut off the ties, and concentrate on the person he has pledged to love and to only love, in sickness in health, till death parts them from one another. His song should be for the woman his spirit is tied to in the church and in his heart - not the pretty butterfly who has flown by with her beautiful, exotic colours and shimmering wings.

His eyes are blinded by her flitting from flower to flower, she is mesmerising because he never believed he could catch her and he is lost in the fantasy being woven with each beat of her wings. He is falling away from reality and living in this dream, but it is just a dream and one that will break hearts and families if he decides to live it.

The song should show a definite emotion, we can either love or hate the theme, but we should still see the subjects as humanly as possible or be caught up in their fantasy.

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blinded by her flitting

This is really written by BlindFlitter isn't it... :laughing:

Wow, Angel...do you write songs? Have you walked this walk?...great advice...got to think...! Part of the paradox is about how anyone would be attracted to someone as selfish as he is contemplating being...I don't get that...or how to convey it....I think I'll go live in a cave for a while...I'll take my guitar though.

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She is the butterfly and you are sweeping the net with this song. You are enticing her with this nectar you pen your words with.

If you did catch her, holding her, even for the briefest of moments, could kill her. You have all the power here, like the hands of God, to crush her in frustration because she was never meant to be yours, or to let her fly free to find another flower to rest upon.

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(Edit 2)

Tongue Tied and Twisted

(Float Like A Skateboard...Sting Like a Horse)

Watching as the sun sets across the open sea

I never told you sunsets do strange things to me

I stare across the distance…..

Run my fingers through your hair

Then I turn to kiss you

....and you're not there.

...and I'm tongue tied……. tongue tied and twisted over you

scared of all the things that we might do.

I'm tongue tied and twisted while you're crying in the night

I know that this feels good...but I know that it's not right...

I'm tongue tied and twisted…

...and scared of all the things that we might lose.

I'm tongue tied and twisted...

…and now I know that one of us must choose.

She says 'dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps.

They visit you at night....then vanish with your sleep.

Too painful to remember….

….Too precious to let go

Take me while you have the chance…

…or you may never know’

But I’m tongue tied, tongue tied and twisted over you…

A million miles away

Another smiles for me

And I could never hurt her

Just to chase a crazy dream

There’s more than one heart broken

Whichever way we fall…...

Still a bit 'clunky' in places....missing a verse and a satisfactory ending....Hey, that sums me up for the 'idiots' thread....'one verse short of a love-song'.... :blush:

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I wasn't really taking it personally...I knew you were referring to the protagonist of the song (or "johnnyguitar", assuming that the lyric is intended to reflect a genuine- rather than imaginary- experience)I was just being a pain.

As it happens, the post to which you responded seems to have subsequently disappeared. It must have been there, otherwise how could you know I was "perturbed".... Spooky.

I don't recall its contents being remotely controversial, so it surely can't have been censored....

With the stuff that's been going on lately, a guy could get quite / more paranoid.

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(Edit 2)

Tongue Tied and Twisted

(Float Like A Skateboard...Sting Like a Horse)

Watching as the sun sets across the open sea

I never told you sunsets do strange things to me

I stare across the distance…..

Run my fingers through your hair

Then I turn to kiss you

....and you're not there.

...and I'm tongue tied……. tongue tied and twisted over you

scared of all the things that we might do.

I'm tongue tied and twisted while you're crying in the night

I know that this feels good...but I know that it's not right...

I'm tongue tied and twisted…

...and scared of all the things that we might lose.

I'm tongue tied and twisted...

…and now I know that one of us must choose.

She says 'dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps.

They visit you at night....then vanish with your sleep.

Too painful to remember….

….Too precious to let go

Take me while you have the chance…

…or you may never know’

But I’m tongue tied, tongue tied and twisted over you…

A million miles away

Another smiles for me

And I could never hurt her

Just to chase a crazy dream

There’s more than one heart broken

Whichever way we fall…...

So this is the improved version. After all that, you took my advice and ditched the last verse.

Still pretty sh!t though, isn't it? ;)

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She is the butterfly and you are sweeping the net with this song. You are enticing her with this nectar you pen your words with.

If you did catch her, holding her, even for the briefest of moments, could kill her. You have all the power here, like the hands of God, to crush her in frustration because she was never meant to be yours, or to let her fly free to find another flower to rest upon.

Sue, I will be surprised if you tell me you don't write poetry. You have a very real talent, here!

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I posted another helpful piece of advice yesterday evening , only to find that it too has "gone missing". It would appear that my contributions are maybe not welcome here.So if this one "mysteriously disappears" too, it'll be "Goodnight and God Bless" from me...

Apologies for appearing unconditionally critical but I'm just telling it as I see it...Take out all the worn-out cliches and what are you left with: "it", "the " and not alot else frankly.

From the word go, it looks as if you've gone out of your way to "shoehorn" them in.

If you want to write a song on this theme, (though why would you: it's been done soooooo many times before...), then perhaps a better bet would be to sit down and do a "stream of consciousness" (not in verse though, for pity's sake?!)that explores and explains your complex emotions in the context of this scenario, (maybe even explains the scenario?) without, at this stage, making conscious use of metaphoric imagery. You might also explain the significance of "sunsets", which seems to form a pivotal part of your opening verse but for no specified reason... I mean, yeah...sunsets , especially upon a sea-horizon, can be beautiful, special, mind-blowing even..but so what? They do "strange things" to you? What...like "lycanthropy"? (If so, we should fit that in somewhere....)

AS it stands, the only bit I might keep would be....

She says 'dreams are full of promises that no-one ever keeps.

They visit you at night....then vanish with your sleep.

...cos I could just about imagine Ian Curtis singing it...

...and....

Take me while you have the chance…
Another cliche, but slightly more endearing than the others. Depending on the vocalists delivery, it could sound quite "desperate", (also it would be typical male behaviour in such a scenario to try and abdicate responsibility for any ensuing deceitful activity ).

Always happy to help.

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Perhaps now, John, you have begun to learn why writers generally merely ask for spelling, grammar usage and puncuation corrections, if seeking any advice whatsoever. It was the wise poet Ranier Marie Wilke who said that nothing is so useless an endeavor for a poet than to seek criticism. As one who writes extensively, I understand that only core love can disclose the inner reality or fallacy of a piece to its author. This is also why most songwriting teams are limited to two; a lyricist and a musician.

Shakespeare would have perhaps never produced a successful play if, upon completion of his first, he had asked a peer, "Would you mind adding your thoughts to mine on this script?"

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