Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Sayonara is acceptable .As in the US , Japan has numerous regional accents and pronunciations . The 'u' is of course silent and thus should not be included in the romaji . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Laurie_ Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 How do you say dork in Japanese?... Welcome Back Kevy....glad to see you are back to your old self again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) Actually, the 'u' lengthens the sound so the 'o' sound lasts longer, so it's not completely worthless in something like that. If it was a word like ohayo, then adding a 'u' after it would be bad spelling. *shrugs* EDIT: Oh, and I've never heard of a dialect that pronounces the "you" like "ya." Edited February 9, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 How do you say dork in Japanese?... Welcome Back Kevy....glad to see you are back to your old self again! Namahage . Thanks , dear ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) Actually, the 'u' lengthens the sound so the 'o' sound lasts longer, so it's not completely worthless in something like that. If it was a word like ohayo, then adding a 'u' after it would be bad spelling. *shrugs* EDIT: Oh, and I've never heard of a dialect that pronounces the "you" like "ya." So you are telling me that people should say " Sa - YOU -na -ra ? Well , my friend -they do - but they're called American tourists with a poor pronunciation guide based on the same instructions you've been given . While sounding ' cute ', the Japanese usually chuckle ( silently of course ) if one were to say it as you have instructed . As for your edit , ever heard of the 'English ' language ? We do it all the time . Next patient , please ! Edited February 9, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Umm... no. I have an English-to-Japanese dictionary right on my desk, written by Japanese natives. It had no entry for "sayanara," but one for "sayounara" (with the 'u' and everything). It also has a few regional words, and it makes special note of them. I'm more willing to trust a dictionary that has been repeatedly revised. Is there a Japanese dialect that pronounces it "sayanara"? In Osaka or something? The site I went to not only had the kanji and hiragana, but also had no entries for sayanara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) Are you STILL insisting that people come to Japan and say " Sa -YOU - na -ra " ( Hey, GI , me love you long time , OK - you got cigarette ? ) ?!?! Go ahead , then - sound like a [bleep] and spread your crap ! It's always fun to see and listen to those fresh off the boat ! This would be the equivilent of someone coming to ...oh ... Texas ... and saying ' Now I have studied English for some time now , but you people don't speak it ! Baka ! ( go look that one up ) Wait a minute - hey - I think it's great that you are interested in and are/were studying Japanese . I respect that , but don't shake your dictionary at me like it was the Holy Bible , buddy ! What one reads and what one 'experiences' are often completely seperate things . You will soon learn that when you leave home . Trust me on that . Next ! Edited February 17, 2007 by Guest kevin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Sayounara (SayÅnara is Japanese for 'goodbye'. "Å" = ou, not "a.") Skip to about 2:30, and 1:40 here. Clearly pronounced as "oh" by a native speaker. My dictionary. None of the comments mention a glaring pronunciation difference in one of the most important words in Japanese. Sorry, sayounara is right. Period. I don't know how you managed to survive in Japan for this long without being able to read hiragana. ã•ã‚ˆã†ãªã‚‰. Sa-yo-u-na-ra. I'm waving a dictionary, a Wikipedia entry compiled by knowledgeable Japanese speakers, two Japanese videos, a site specifically designed for looking up Japanese words, and common sense. You're offering as evidence... your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Namahage, trust experienced people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I find his experience suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Here is something straight from NHK Broadcasting (Japan's public broadcaster) saying his pronunciation is wrong. I've provided tons of evidence straight from actual Japanese people. I trust them over some dude who wandered into Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Musn't be a hypocrite : Thanks for the well wishes ; feeling better , now ... anyone else sick ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 All you've done is try to write off my statements, points, and pieces of evidence while providing absolutely no backing to your own. Funny how one person who can say "I live in Japan" on a forum suddenly is more believable than the millions who live there, too. Hypocrite? I'm not even arguing my experience in this matter... I'm arguing Japan's experience in this matter. Yes, I'm dragging this topic on, but I don't appreciate my statements that are backed by evidence going ignored, while I become a target of petty personal attacks. I'm sick of this. I'll let the other forum members determine who has more credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 so ... how's your health , Namahage ? ( Hint ! Hint ! - you egocentric fool ) By ' hypocrite' , I was refering to myself for blasting others for pages of 'unrelated chit-chat ' that don't belong in the appropriate threads - get it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 well I have absolutly no idea about the Japanese Language, so I couldn't possibly decide who's right and who's wrong on the one hand there are numerous evidences: dictionary, internet sites (btw google has seven times more results for "sayounara" than for "sayanara") and on the other hand a person who speaks Japanese on daily basis tells something else... but what I thought of, isn't it pretty pointless to argue how a Japanese word is written in the Latin alphabet? Don't you both write it the same with Japanese letters? Maybe it's written differently from being pronounced, and maybe there are different dialects? Regardless who's right, I don't think personal attacks - from either side - are the best way to 'discuss' things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 So ... you didn't sense my ' let's get out of this' then, or what ... Good lord ! You live in Germany and if some foreign 'student' of your language came and told you that you've been speaking German incorrectly all this time - how would you feel ? I've been here a year short of the entire time that Namahage has beeen alive ... go figure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 of course I 'sensed' that but I wanted to post my opinion about it nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) Nothing wrong with that ! How's your health this winter , Farin - avoiding the flu ? Edited February 9, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 growing up in the Southwest, it's funny to me to hear how people somehow seem to think that if they just add an "o" to the end of every word, and talk loudly, the Spanish-speaking people will understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 IT ISO NOT TRUO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 well I have absolutly no idea about the Japanese Language, so I couldn't possibly decide who's right and who's wrong on the one hand there are numerous evidences: dictionary, internet sites (btw google has seven times more results for "sayounara" than for "sayanara") and on the other hand a person who speaks Japanese on daily basis tells something else... but what I thought of, isn't it pretty pointless to argue how a Japanese word is written in the Latin alphabet? Don't you both write it the same with Japanese letters? Maybe it's written differently from being pronounced, and maybe there are different dialects? Regardless who's right, I don't think personal attacks - from either side - are the best way to 'discuss' things... The Latin writing of Japanese words is a direct imitation of the characters in hiragana (the most basic form of written Japanese). The difference here is Kevin says it's ã•ã‚„ãªã‚‰ (sa-ya-na-ra), while I'm saying it's ã•ã‚ˆã†ãªã‚‰ (sa-yo-u-na-ra). The kanji is written as 左様ãªã‚‰, which is pronounced my way, too. You could go to www.thejapanesepage.com and ask about it in the forum, or heck, I could do it. They have native speakers as well as people who've lived in Japan for a good part of their life, and they'll all tell you that it's sayounara. (15 minute intro into Japanese.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Why don't you open up a new topic for this incredibly important debate? No offense, but I don't know...is this really that important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I'll take it to the random debates topic if you want. e____e And yes, it's important. I don't take kindly to being smeared for doing nothing but supporting my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 The thing is, it's off topic....and no one really cares anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fish Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 It's off-topic? No kidding. I care 'cause I've been insulted for bringing an argument to the table. The mods should care that I want to prove my argument. } Plus, all I was doing was answering Farin's questions anyway. See? He cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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