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Farin

'27 dead' in Connecticut primary school shooting

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Stoves aren't designed to burn people and eggs aren't designed to poison people. These ridiculous false equivocations entirely gloss over the fact that guns, especially hand guns and assault weapons, are designed for one main reason: to kill.

And I've played plenty of violent video games and am a huge Tarantino fan. I have never even thought about killing a single human being. You have to be crazy to think that it's ok to do something like that just because it's on a game or a movie. Which this kid clearly was. He should have been treated and he shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a gun.

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On July 18, 1984, James Huberty walked into a McDonald's in San Ysidro, just south of where I grew up and was living at the time, and blew away 21 people with a 9mm semi automatic Uzi made for doing just what he did with it - putting bullets in people in a quick and efficient manner.

I remember this event clearly, because of where I lived. It's the first mass murder in my personal history that I can recall where I was when I found out about it.

There were no video games at the time depicting the type of violence that Halo and Call of Duty do, there was Mario, to the best of my recollection, and Donkey Kong. There were no movies depicting such realism as what we have now. There was one sick man, a big weapon, and lots of ammo.

I can agree with guns used for hunting, perhaps. I can even agree with guns for skeet shooting or other target shooting. I can't agree with the types of weapons that are made for rapid fire and are sold to the general public. Those might be used in a war, but for no other reasons would those be feasible for use by anyone, IMO.

Here is a video of a family friend who is doing great things with guns. :)

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Stoves aren't designed to burn people and eggs aren't designed to poison people. These ridiculous false equivocations entirely gloss over the fact that guns, especially hand guns and assault weapons, are designed for one main reason: to kill.

And I've played plenty of violent video games and am a huge Tarantino fan. I have never even thought about killing a single human being. You have to be crazy to think that it's ok to do something like that just because it's on a game or a movie. Which this kid clearly was. He should have been treated and he shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a gun.

Well, you are obviously an exceptional human being. Incapable of a horrible act of violence, I commend you.

My point was it's "crazy" to blame an inanimate object for an action it is used in. That's all.

The reality is countries with the strictest gun laws/bans etc, have lunatics who get guns and murder, right? The only diffence is in our country it's easier for a good person to have and use a gun to "potect themselves" against the bad people who get guns "no matter what laws" you enact.

If a bad guy enters your home pointing a gun at you, he will shoot you while you call 911 on the phone, or run, because you got a good look at him and can be called as a witness if he is ever caught by the law later.

Therefore, the only real way for good people to defend themselves against bad guys with guns, is with a gun.

I mean, if you have a better solution, I'm all ears!

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Your opinion that more guns make us safer just isn't backed up by the facts. And there's no reason to be so condescending. Unless you really think my lack of violent urges makes me exceptional, which would be highly disturbing.

So you are saying John Lott is a liar and deceiver with his stats?

And there is THIS STUDY from last February

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John Lott is a Fox News contributor and the Cato Institute is a notoriously biased organization.

Fair enough, what about other studies that show violent crimes are on the decline in recent years while gun ownership and concealed carry has increased?

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Sure, gun violence is on the decline. But compare it to the rest of the world and it's still shockingly high. And it's especially high in the south, where guns are most abundant and easiest to obtain.

I agree, to an extent. Studies do find countries with easy access to small firearms are more violent certainly. But countries under siege by political corruption are also.

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I think the bottom-line here is...any civilized society should be willing to change even their most basic rights and privileges if it can be proven to prevent the slaughter of innocent children. I'm so willing to contribute time, effort and money to see this thing through.

This tragedy has greatly effected me as a parent, an American and as a descent human being!

We cannot just look the other way this time, or pound our fist to the table and exclaim we are free to be who we are. We must improve our future with change, that's what this country was founded on!!

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Stoves aren't designed to burn people and eggs aren't designed to poison people. These ridiculous false equivocations entirely gloss over the fact that guns, especially hand guns and assault weapons, are designed for one main reason: to kill.

And I've played plenty of violent video games and am a huge Tarantino fan. I have never even thought about killing a single human being. You have to be crazy to think that it's ok to do something like that just because it's on a game or a movie. Which this kid clearly was. He should have been treated and he shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a gun.

When I think about the phrase "violent culture," I don't think about video games, books, music, and movies. I think about the real life society that made it possible for military invasions and occupations of other countries - at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives - possible.

26 foreign kids being blown up in a Cambodian, Vietnamese, Serbian, Iraqi, Afghan, (etc., etc.) village? Perfectly normal. We've been taught from a very early time that's just military business. This is how we get away with mass-murdering all kinds of people all the time. In other words, [real] human life is trivialised all the time here in the U.S. :beatnik:

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Can I just say:

1. For every study forming a correlation (not causation) between media violence and real life violence violence, there's a study that finds no correlation or causation between the two. I can find you the studies if you like, I did come across all this during le psych degree as well as le media degree.

(a). All this reliance on 'studies' and 'research' is obviously coming from people who have never conducted any studies or done any research because then things like intervening variables, levels of significance, sampling methods, experimental design etc. would be what's being debated.

(B). Research isn't conducted in a vacuum, and researchers are subject to the same societal forces as you and me.

©. Furthermore, even the most rigorous study is not immune to biases and, of course, the perennial problem of finding a representative sample. Smaller samples are easier to observe, obvs, but hardly likely to be representative - most studies are conducted within a limited geographic area, and use the same demographic (usually college students), often with an incentive attached which itself is an intervening variable - not to mention that the kids may be from the same college or course etc.

2. Surprised no one brought this up. FYI, America, there are other countries out there.

(a). "America had 11,000 gun-related homicides in 2008. Japan had 11. Does anyone know if they play video games in Japan?"

(B). "Surely, if video games caused mass shootings, Korea's population would be down to about 12 by now."

[thanks, Twitter]

3. Finally - guns are for the weak. If you want to kill someone you should be able to do it without hiding behind a prop. Look at the rest of the animal kingdom - they use nothing but their own strength. And they never kill their own kind. Human beings are an embarrassment to nature.

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"America had 11,000 gun-related homicides in 2008. Japan had 11. Does anyone know if they play video games in Japan?"

Japan doesn't allow gun possession legally, they are a completely different and controlled culture. They have more respect, dignity and honor than any nation, imho. They have extremely strict immigration. I would be curious if America instituted their immigration policies alone, what impact that would have on our gun violence. Look at their history, look at all the facts, not just he ones that support your cause, position or agenda.

And according to this link HERE The report for the The International Society for Research on Aggression (IRSA) concluded that that evidence shows that the consumption of media violence can act as a trigger for aggressive thoughts or feelings already stored.

Then there is this STUDY that suggest ...shows that playing violent video games increases violent thinking, attitudes and behaviors among players.

Finally - guns are for the weak. If you want to kill someone you should be able to do it without hiding behind a prop. Look at the rest of the animal kingdom - they use nothing but their own strength. And they never kill their own kind. Human beings are an embarrassment to nature.

Well, it was the Chinese who first invented the gun, so let's blame them. The cat's out of the bag. Bad people who ignore laws will always get them in America, no matter how much you ban them for the legal citizen, so what is a person to do when a criminal with a gun breaks into their home at 3:00 AM? Die? Or defend themselves?

If Americans want they can immigrate to Canada where it's safe, you can leave your door open at night and the worst thing is you'll get frostbite.

This ain't Canada. There are bad people out there with bad intent.

What this horrible crime teaches us is we have to be MORE prepared, not disarm our good citizens, that's crazy. Connecticut has laws and they were broken in this massacre, so how do MORE LAWS work to fix anything to lessen the possibility of a repeat? It's NOT LOGICAL THINKING! And these nut's blaming the NRA for "killing our kids", are you fricken serious? So why not protest General Motors plants in Detroit and Jack Daniels in Kentucky for killing people with drunk drivers? Because it's equally as stupid.

We are a violent ANIMAL, no doubt, and there should be NO GUNS anywhere, NO DOUBT, but they are here now, they are sold and bought by criminals, and will be in other countries and brought here just as easily as heroin and cocaine are right now. So we have choices, defend ourselves and live, or give up our right to defend ourselves and get killed.

No amount of laws will ever save your life as long as there are people willing to BREAK THOSE LAWS!

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Plus we have no idea if video games were a contributing factor in this case.....what we do know is that a military style high powered weapon in the hands of a sick mind killed those kids....

Have we any evidences what weapon was actually used?

I suspect we never will. Initial reports were he had and used pistols, a rifle was "left in the vehicle", later, we here it was a HP rifle. Media spin to progress an agenda? Naaaah, that doesn't happen here... in America. Not here!!

Maybe it was a mistake. Who knows? Does it really matter when Connecticut has some of the STRICTEST gun law in the nation, and this, sadly had no effect on this crime.

Here is a good article.

http://townhall.com/columnists/bobbarr/2012/12/21/sandy-hook-shooting-demands-more-than-kneejerk-antigun-response-n1471610/page/full/

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I never agreed with J-J. Rousseau

Also it's just not true. Animals kill their own kind all the time. There are territorial fights, eg. Or pack animals where a new alpha male kills the offspring of his predecessor.

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Japan doesn't allow gun possession legally, they are a completely different and controlled culture. They have more respect, dignity and honor than any nation, imho. They have extremely strict immigration. I would be curious if America instituted their immigration policies alone, what impact that would have on our gun violence. Look at their history, look at all the facts, not just he ones that support your cause, position or agenda.

Could you please explain what immigration has to do with gun related homicides?

But anyway:

List of countries by firearm-related death rate

The USA has a rate of 10.2 gun related deaths per 100.000 inhabitants. France with its BIG immigration related problems has 3.00, the UK 0.25 and Germany (with a rate of immigrants roughly comparable to the US) has a rate of 1.10.

Come to think of, that reminds me of an article from a couple months ago.

"According to Germany's Der Spiegel, German police shot only 85 bullets in all of 2011. [...] most of those shots weren't even aimed anyone: "49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed.""

(Germany has a population of 82 mio, so feel free to multiply by 4 to get the equivalent amount for a population the size of the US).

Also... "so what is a person to do when a criminal with a gun breaks into their home at 3:00 AM? Die? Or defend themselves?" does this really happen?

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Japan doesn't allow gun possession legally, they are a completely different and controlled culture. They have more respect, dignity and honor than any nation, imho. They have extremely strict immigration. I would be curious if America instituted their immigration policies alone, what impact that would have on our gun violence. Look at their history, look at all the facts, not just he ones that support your cause, position or agenda.

While I am in favour of deporting all illegal aliens, what you just alluded to would have zero impact because these mass shootings at schools were done by legal citizens who legally obtained high-powered weapons :beatnik:

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Also... "so what is a person to do when a criminal with a gun breaks into their home at 3:00 AM? Die? Or defend themselves?" does this really happen?

which part, the breaking in or the dying or defending?

The breaking in, yes, unfortunately. At 3:00 a.m. or in broad daylight (called "home invasions.")

The dying or defending yourself, yes and yes/no. Mostly those that are surprised with a home invasion or a break-in are just that - surprised - and unable to move quickly enough to retrieve their own firearm before the muzzle of the bad guy's gun is in their own face. And just the fact they are trying to protect themselves would probably make the bad guy shoot. And even if the homeowner thought he could shoot if it ever came to this, since he's a good guy, despite all his training on a shooting range, he'd probably freeze up when it came to ever pulling the trigger on another human being, even if he was able to get the drop on him first, whereas the bad guy has no such compunctions.

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