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To share or NOT to share?


Ken
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I gave this a lot of thought before posting. "Jeeze, can we actually talk about this here?" Then I flipped to the Kazaa screen to see how my downloads were going, and saw that there were three million, three hundred fifty one thousand, four hundred sixty five other people on at the same time as me, sharing a number of files I couldn't count. Can we be ALL criminals? I don't know how to feel about downloading (sharing) music files. I have been doing it for about 4 years now. I am pretty sure file sharing has killed the music industry, if Brittney is the best they have to offer. But, I can't feel all that guilty. I started collecting music in album form when I was a kid. Like everyone else, I switched to tapes, both 8-track and cassette. I was one of the first people to buy a CD player. In the 17+ years I have been collecting cd's, my personal collection now numbers fifteen hundred twenty seven discs. Given an arbitrary cost of $22.00 bucks a disc (hey, it's Canada, that's what I pay), I have spent $33,594.00 I am not complaining, it was my choice to allocate the money to the purchase. But I think I paid through the nose. So when the availability came up to get the music free, I was on it like a fat kid on an M&M. I was on Napster day and night. More so when I got high-speed internet. Had heart-failure when they killed it. Was resucitated when KaZaa came online. When I got my first burner, I made cd's like a crazy man. Then realized that I had essentially downloaded all the music I already had, and was just making different compilations. Eventually, I downloaded a lot of music I wouldn't have bought as, it was the only song on the disc that I liked (think, Aldo Nova. "Fantasy" was the only reason to buy the album). The younger ones today have it weird. When I was young you had to wait for HOURS for your favorite song to be played on the radio. Then you faced the ghetto-blaster to another sound source to record the damn thing, hoping your Ma or Dad didn't bellow to come upstairs and eat dinner and screw up your song. How many times I yelled "SHUT UP!!! I'm TAPING!!!". (Don't laugh, I hang onto an old cassette with that inclusion for just that reason. My Dad sounds like someone was sawing his leg off, calling me for dinner). People like Bobo, at 17, given the fact file-sharing has been around for 5 years now, was 12 when it came on the scene. Never had to put friggin' pennies on a record needle because the damn record skipped. Instant digital music. Never had to contend with a Mattel Close-n-Play. Never had to screw with a stupid 8-track that never rewound, and sounded like someone dropped a garbage truck off the Empire State Building when the program changed. Music Utopia for the younger crowd. And I don't mean Bobo personally, just, people of his demograph. But they have it weird because there is nothing of merit coming out these days. A Catch-22. Look at the Rolling Stone Top 10. Seems to be a lack of supergroups these days.

What do you think? Did file sharing kill off the 'good' music? In my own defense, I bought a cd tonight, from an online review I had read. "The Derailers - Genuine". Bought it at MusicWorld, here in my hometown. I paid 26 bucks, plus tax! First disc I had bought in ages. Got in the truck, put it in the cd player. It was horrible. Oh well, caveat emptor.... (Latin, for "let the buyer beware"). And if the RIAA doesn' tlike me file-sharing, too damn bad. The 35 grand I spent, bought SOMEONE an inground swimming pool.

Ken.

P.S... I got an instant message via Kazaa last week telling me that what I was doing was wrong, draining profits from the RIAA. Sending me that only makes me redouble my efforts. Think I'll make Kelly that God-awful Cheryl Crow disc she's been bugging me for now.

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Well - I think it caused more questions than it has caused answers!

:: + :headphones: = =:P

We know that if you give it away -

No one will pay.

If no one will pay -

No one will PLAY!

If no one will play...

"Bye bye miss American pie, drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry, the good ol' boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye, singing this 'll be the day that I die..

(ironic ain't it... the first song I ever downloaded of the internet for free).

Music will die.

Or will it?! Or will this breathe life into a dead industry?

I agree. What the hell happened to REAL music? Is Britney and Eminem the best that this generation can do?

We need to apply what we have learned.

If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

Well ...

Peace and love and Rock 'n' roll :guitar: :thumbsup:

~ Mike

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I really DID download that Cheryl Crow album. How ironic is it that I am looked down on for downloading an album of hers, containing a song she didn't write? "The First Cut Is The Deepest". Granted, she has to pay royalties for it's inclusion, but she didn't have to do too damn much in the composition department, did she. Is she that short on life-experiences and melodies that she couldn't write another song for the album herself? It's almost a note-by-note reproduction of the original, sung by her. Karaoke, anyone?And she'll make a boatload of $$ because of it's inclusion. "Hey, Cat? I'm gonna sing something you wrote, I'll make a big pile, you'll earn a smaller pile". But I'm bad for nicking it for free.... 'Druther give my hard earned pesos to Cat Stevens himself. Think I'll buy one of his 'Best Of' discs just to spite her.

G'night.

Ken.

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Ironic death-related incidence number two:

The first track I downloaded off Napster was The Everly Brothers' Down In The Willow Garden. About a man who makes his girlfriend die a gory death. I would say that that's quite prescient given what later happened with file-sharing networks!

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i download with no remorse. as you say if you give it away people won't pay. i personaly feel that there is no sense in me spending my hard earned money for something that is available to me at no cost what so ever. as i see it it's included in the price of my internet service. i don't see it that i have killed the radio star, there are plenty of people who snub there noses at file sharing, or would rather have the manifested cd in front of them. so to those who are either to afraid to download music(due to a puney civil suit)or whatever the reason may be. i personaly thank you for keeping what industry is left of the music industry alive. so that i can keep my ultimate music collection growing.

p.s. #1 advocate for open source.

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I missed your allusion to me in the initial post, and would like to somehow respond. How, I don't know yet.

I'd like to try your pennies on the needle thing. I never could work my old box because it kept skipping. Now I've got a new one, I've no need to worry. That was very annoying when it happened.

I was 14 when I downloaded Napster. I thought - hey, free music. Power to the people, if only for the amount of time that they overlook the illegality of it all. Course, by 16, this had happened, and I had switched over to Audiogalaxy (which started out very slow, and then, when Napster gave in, it picked up in site traffic). For this reason, file sharing is a great thing. Not for self-pleasure, but to give other people the chance to see what's out there. Of the 312 >mumble< Everly Brothers >stops mumbling< tracks which I have on CD-Rom, 300 were downloaded off the Internet. This includes foreign rarities, two whole live albums etc.

Yes, I'm a mad fan, but skipping that obvium, it gave me a chance to be in the knowledge that there was SO much music out there that even millions of users couldn't have it all.

Giving our voice to the music, as when Dylan sang to the Onassis-Kennedy's (the allusion from American Pie - the jester sang for the king and queen). That's the most important thing to me. Life's ultimate aim is to make a difference. And for those that can, all power to them.

(On a tangent: they played American Pie from the original record the other day, you could tell because it skipped three verses at the end)

For those who can and do share music, I have all the time in the world. A rare breed are those who say it's okay, carry it out, stand up to courts, tell everyone within sight that, unequivocally, downloading music is the best thing that happened since the naissance of the internet.

My computer was first installed in September 99, and since then I have been mad keen on the idea of getting what we deserve for nothing but 20 minutes download, and months of pure pleasure.

I'm not sure if any of this makes any sense to anyone else...

People like Bobo, at 17, given the fact file-sharing has been around for 5 years now, was 12 when it came on the scene. Never had to put friggin' pennies on a record needle because the damn record skipped. Instant digital music. Never had to contend with a Mattel Close-n-Play. Never had to screw with a stupid 8-track that never rewound, and sounded like someone dropped a garbage truck off the Empire State Building when the program changed. Music Utopia for the younger crowd. And I don't mean Bobo personally, just, people of his demograph.

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I guess I need to clarify. When I had written that, I was using you as a refrence for age only. You are 17. From what I have been reading here, you represent the younger age of the spectrum here on these boards. I am going on 40. I don't consider myself old, but in between the 2 ages (yours and mine), there were some drastic changes. I have neices and nephews your age (the 15-16-17 year old age bracket). They don't remember the hassles that involved hearing your favorite song. They weren't around. Or the hassles involved with a record player, or an 8-track player. My first record player was a Mattel close-n-play. It was a toy. You'd stick a 45rpm in, shut the lid, and the record would play. And it was horrible when it would skip, as you knew that was it for the record. Want one that doesn't skip? Buy a new record. Nowdays, heck, just pitch the disc, make a new one in 2 minutes via the computer. And Bobo, you say you'd like to try the pennies on the needle thing. Some advice. Don't. 9 times out of 10, it will only screw up the record.

Ken.

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I concur with Ken, I roached many an album with the pennies on the needle. I had one album, I think it was Tommy James and Shondells, on my record player after I hade rearranged my room furniture and the afternoon sun gave an added effect to crimson and clover that was most undesirable. I tried pennies to soften the ride over the speed bump but all it did was shave down the groove and make thinks worse over time. I had to save and save to buy new albums, mowing lawns, shoveling snow off walkways, washing cars, etc. So I valued my music.

What I spent on music in my life?

Ok -out of fairness my five older brother handed down a number of 8-tracks and albums to me, so taking them in to consideration I would say...

?150-200 8-tracks at between $8-12 dollars each = $2000.00

(I got some used from secondhand stores - remember those?)

?100-125 LP's at approx. $13.00 each $1500.00

?200-300 (I lost count) cassette tapes $15.00 ea. $4300.00

?500-600? CDs at (some used from cd store) $8-18 = $7500.00

That's over $15000.00 at conservitive rates of virtually the same music give or take!!

Now if a burned CD gets a bad spot I can flip it into the trash and burn off another in 3 minutes. I think I have bought this music enough times. Besides, just around the corner will come a little stick or chip the size of a dime that will hold 200 tracks and then my cd players will become extinct before I do.

And the radio! Let's talk about the radio. I used to tape off "album nights" from local radio shows. Make a tape of side a or b. Nobody complained. As for free music putting the industry out of business? That never worked, I was not the only one doing this.

I give you the library - I can go check out a book FOR FREE and read it! No I cannot own it, but this has not bankrupt authors. Plenty of people still buy books even though they can be read free. I get all my news off the internet for free, I don't have to buy any publications. It's not stealing, it's called technology at we learn to adapt to it, not detroy it.

Just my 2 cents worth (I took them of my turntable stylus)

Mike

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Sorry about misinterpreting your previous message, Ken. I was joking about messing around with the record players anyway - any that I come across nowadays just refuse to work at the worst of times.

This is the bit I hope I didn't majorly p*ss you off.

I guess I need to clarify. When I had written that, I was using you as a refrence for age only. You are 17. From what I have been reading here, you represent the younger age of the spectrum here on these boards. I am going on 40. I don't consider myself old, but in between the 2 ages (yours and mine), there were some drastic changes. I have neices and nephews your age (the 15-16-17 year old age bracket). They don't remember the hassles that involved hearing your favorite song. They weren't around. Or the hassles involved with a record player, or an 8-track player. My first record player was a Mattel close-n-play. It was a toy. You'd stick a 45rpm in, shut the lid, and the record would play. And it was horrible when it would skip, as you knew that was it for the record. Want one that doesn't skip? Buy a new record. Nowdays, heck, just pitch the disc, make a new one in 2 minutes via the computer. And Bobo, you say you'd like to try the pennies on the needle thing. Some advice. Don't. 9 times out of 10, it will only screw up the record.

Ken.

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Here's my opinion on the whole file sharing thing (i can be a little long winded)

now, i'm only 15, but i know my rock history, i've been heavy into music since two years ago when i found my dad's bootleg White Album, i was instantly hooked, I think that i might honestly be one of the only people in my "age demographic" in my "community" (God, i love qoutation marks)(and parantheses for that matter) (But who doesn't ::)

and i'm probably the only person my age who actually owns a turntable and a sizable record collection.

but anyway....

now for the past two years i've been stickin' to my good wholesome rock (I generally stick with bands that started '60-'94 in my opinion everyone who started of '94 is crap (besides bands with "veteran" members such as the Foo Fighters and Audioslave) so back on topic, a few weeks ago my friends convinced me to buy Linkin Park's "Meteora" ("it's such a good album" they said) so i plop down my twenty bucks put it in my CD player and...... IT SUCKED i mean come on I have lots of albums where the bands put effort on ALL of the songs, not just the singles (amazing. i know i was shocked too) so in my opinion if the record labels want me to spend twenty bucks on a CD in a cheap cardboard case, my reply is BITE ME, I'M GONNA GET MY MUSIC FOR FREE!!! :jester:

now if y'all don't mind i'm gonna listen to my "Nevermind" album (all the songs are good on that album, weird huh?)

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At 15, Scott sounds like a young punk with an attitude. Saying certain bands suck, listening to records on a turntable, and telling the RIAA to BITE ME, he'll keep getting his music for free. His whole post reeks of rebellious attitude. Good Christ, I hope there are a million more kids out there like him.

Scott, you've given me hope that there is a future.

Download the Ramones, "Do You Remember Rock and Roll Radio?". Here's a quote from the song. "We need change, we need it fast, before rock is, part of the past. 'Cause lately it all sounds the same to me.".

Warm regards,

Ken.

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I do not have P2P file sharing. I have a system that is an update, select and grab binary. My selected file is saved to my C drive then I store it on my D drive. I just looked in my MP3 file - over 4,000 songs.

Do I feel bad? NO WAY! Am I worried about getting caught? Not likely to happen, so no. Lars Ulrich and James Heffield and the RIAA can kiss my hiney! Oh and I have 3 whole Metallica songs in my files...obviously that's all I thought was worth taking of their music for nothing so why would I EVER buy their CD's.

90% of the music I have is OLD stuff in which artists already made millions and millions of $$$ for. The music I took is so old that people have either never heard of it, or do not remember the title until they hear it.

The files I have from recent years are not even complete CD's. I have the options of taking a selected article or taking the entire CD. Some CD's only have 1 or 2 good tunes, so I take from different CD's from the same artist to make my own compilation. What I am most guilty of now is replacing my files with files of higher kbp?s ? like 192 for 256 ? even 320?the higher the better in most cases.

The more recent music I have are songs from bands I wouldn't listen to except for the 1 or 2 songs I heard from them and liked. Fuel's "Hemorrhage" and Kryptonite's "Loser" are 2 examples of this. I'm not going to waste my money on the entire CD.

The Eagles...I love them so I took A LOT of their tunes - but they made their money and are wanting for nothing nowadays. Same with The Stones, David Bowie, The Doors and Zeppelin and the Beatles.

How am I ripping off anyone? I am not selling any of what I put on blank CD's...it is for MY OWN PERSONAL USE. I make CD's for close friends or my mom, but it isn't like they'd ever go out and buy from these artists and my making them a CD made it so they didn't have to go buy it, thus I caused an artist's profit loss. My mom listens to George Benson and the Carpenters for Pete's sake!

If I order a movie from Pay per View and invite 35 friends and family members to watch the movie but charge nothing ? no check to the cable company for the extra invites, am I stealing from the cable TV company? Same premise!

When I was a kid we had to record on cassettes (as Ken hit so well the proverbial nail on the head). I remember all the things he reminisced about...it wasn't fun. Please...burning CD's is my reward, and Ken's too, for all the aggravation we were put through all those years! LOL!

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Catherine brings up a sore point with me. As for Lars Ulrich's whining about lost revenue... You guys ever hear of a man by the name of Solomon Linda? Probably not, right? I guarantee you have have heard his song. Solomon Linda composed the melody and song structure for "The Lion Sleeps Tonight". Without doing a lot of research at the moment, I read numerous times that this melody is now almost 100 years old, and, he was paid a paltry sum for it. Something like a dollar or so. The song (again, this is what I have read, and I am inclined to believe it) the song/melody has made more money than all others. Given the fact Disney has used it in a couple of the zillion selling kids movies, and it has been used commercially more than I care to remember, and the guy who's brain it came up in made essentially nothing. Lars has a gold-plated toilet.Solomon Linda was buried in an unmarked grave.

I don't feel bad for Lars.

Ken.

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i too have well over 4,000 songs on my hard drive, with a few more thousand on disc that i saved before i reformated my drive(long story,but here are some parantheses for our angry kid scott). now about this whole file sharing thing.this is big, real big, in fact so big. it's bigger than me, ken, mike, scott, bobo, catherine, and however many people are on the r.i.a.a. hit list. call the cdc cause we have an epidemic on our hands, and thier ain't nothin that can be down about it. the r.i.a.a. are bustin thier balls to keep us from downloading music.hell they ought to be thankfull we take some of this crap for free.(message to the r.i.a.a. save your money, if this new bunk stuff is the best you can produce, you'll need it) civil suit schmivil suit i have no credit as it is. so to quote scott "BITE ME I'M GONNA GET MY MUSIC FOR FREE". i have not paid for a cd in years and i don't plan to start now. is there anyone who post on this site who has recieved a lawsuit from the r.i.a.a.? would really love to hear your feelings on the matter.

p.s. #1 advocate for open source

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I think Ken pointed out the other night when he announced how many people were online and sharing via KaZaa, (I use winmx and they don't show how many) I forget how many millions? Tens of millions? And as for the riaa's use of public tax dollars to consume the time of court clerks to process paperwork (without an actual judge) it's seems they have quit a powerful little lobby don't they?!

Wouldn't it be nice if any of us had this kind of political/judicial muscle? It's pathetic. That's what it is!

This is a case of David and Goliath - We are David and RIAA is Goliath. Sooner or later (if there is any true justice) they will be a loud and resounding THUD!!

The only people getting caught are the ones keeping thousands of songs on their HD's and offering them up. And even of these there are hundreds of thousands of them. Good use of U.S. tax dollars. Lucky, Ken lives in Canada. What about all the other out-of U.S. people that the RIAA hasn't got the power to reach...yet? Will all source move to off-shore countries?

~ Mike

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This is an instant message I received tonight via KaZaa. I had left it running all day, and it was awaiting me when I got home. Please note, a cut-and-paste, no modifications.

WARNING:

It appears that you are offering copyrighted music to others from your computer. While we appreciate your love of music, please be aware that sharing copyrighted music on the Internet without permission from the copyright owner is illegal. Victims of this process are the artists, songwriters and musicians who create the music and the other talented individuals who are involved in bringing you the music.

More than 40,000 Canadians work hard producing and supporting the music you appear to enjoy, including producers, engineers, retailers, music publishers, distributors, manufacturers, record companies, concert promoters and broadcasters.

When you break the law, you risk legal penalties. There is a simple way to avoid that risk: Don't distribute music to others on a file-sharing system like this. For further information, please go to www.cria.ca.

Why didn't they just add, "And thanks for paying through the nose for that shi**y "Derailers" disc you bought last Thursday night. We miss you spending 26 bucks once a week!". And when you go to the website they offer, this is what I got..

The server you have reached is not configured or unavailable! Again, a cut-and-paste.

I am going to triple my efforts.

Ken.

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i'm right behind ya brother, though i dont share love of kazaa with ya. i'm partial to bearshare. maybe i should not say that so loudly, could be industry ears lisening.lol. but where in kazaa i found i was getting alot of looped music, or scrambled music. i switched to bearshare and i think i may have only come across one or two bad songs. not to mention that i am able to find songs on bearshare, that i would never be able to find on kazaa.

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  • 1 month later...

Well...I am 16. Unfortunately, I have to say I am part of this "generation" that listens to the crappiest music ever. Not a day goes by where I don't end up in arguments with my peers about how horrible the music that is being played on most radio is.

Here's a funny story...this kid kept bothering me about "how much Pink Floyd sucks". To shut him up, I burned him a copy of Dark Side of the Moon. Since then, he hasn't said much anymore about it. It's funny how much you like good music once you bother listen to it, isn't it?

As for downloading music, this is the way i see it: If they were TRUE musicians, they would consider it an honor that so many people are listening to them. But they are only in it for the money... as if they don't have enough already.

In my opinion, music started to head downhill once the 90's hit. Once Kurt Cobain blew his brains out, good music officially ended.

(on the TV next to me right now, Godsmack is the musical guest on MadTV. GOD they suck.)

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  • 3 years later...

Chill out , dudes ! :) But even years later I still feel morally superior to you - I have NEVER downloaded a single song nor video . I've watched YouTube's 2 minute blurbs when they've been added to posts - but like it or not , you are still pirates and no better , morally , than some geek in a Shanghi sweathouse . Live with it .

Even Warmer regards ,

Kevin

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I only downloaded stuff that was/is not commercially available. If a company out there will re-release Vicious Pink, Poesie Noire, FR David, and others I will gladly fork out the money for it. Hopefully, the re-issues will be upgraded from old vinyl recordings. Usually, the people who steal music primarily have godawful taste in music anyway, so it's mainly bad music that is the target of thieves.

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