PaulEdwardWagemann Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 if you want to consider yoruself a Rockist, then heres the list of the 13 essential albums you need know, frontward sidways and back: Beatles ~ Sgt Pepper Beatles ~ Abbey Road Bob Dylan ~ The FreeWheelin Bob Dylan Neil Young ~ Decade The Clash ~ Combat Rock Pink Floyd ~ Pipers at the gates of Dawn Liz Phair ~ Exile in Guyville Black Sabbath ~ Paranoid led Zeppelin ~ I REM ~ ChronicTown Nirvana ~ Nevermind Velvet Underground ~ VU The Who ~ Who's Next These are the bare minimum. Chronologically they run from 1962 to 1993. (Yes, that means that I dont think there has been a significant Rockism album made in the last 12 plus years--but I'm open for debate). There are only two female band members here; Liz Phair and Mo Tucker, No blacks, no hispanics, no asians, no arabs. 7 of the 13 albums are from British acts, and one is from a Canadian. 7 albums are from the 60s, 2 from the 90s, 2 from the 80s and just two from the 70s (even though the 70s were in fact the greatest Rock decade of all!). There are a several other albums that came very close to making the list; Pavements Slanted and Enchanted, the Talking Head Remain in Light, and Stereolabs Space Age Batchelor Pad Music, Love's Forever Changes, the Replacements Pleased to Meet Me, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 I take it Rockism is not "an Equal Opportunities Employer" then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulEdwardWagemann Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Well how many white artists do you think would be on a list of 13 essential Soul albums or 13 essential Rap albums... If Chuck Berry would have ever made a good album he would have been on the list...Hendrix came close, and Love (Arthur Lee) probablly came the closest...but I explain why none of these artists albums made the list on my blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuff Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 And for you that don't like anything explicit or modern,(Like ME! ) Change Liz Phair's(explicit) album with Pet Sounds-The Beach Boys, and Nirvana's(modern) with Paul McCartney and Wings-Band on the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I have lived a very sheltered life, so you must all excuse me for what may be obvious, but what is this thing called rockism? Rockist...? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rockism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Well how many white artists do you think would be on a list of 13 essential Soul albums or 13 essential Rap albums... Soul and R&B: Hall And Oates The Doobie Brothers Alison Moyet (maybe) Taylor Dayne (maybe) Lisa Stanfield (maybe) Anastacia (maybe) Problem is is that they're not filed under "Soul," but "Adult Contemporary." http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/141067/post/new/#NEW Rap and Hip Hop: Eminem Beastie Boys The Stereo MCs Jamiroquai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulEdwardWagemann Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 The doobie brothers as SOul??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Um, not entirely...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doobie_Brothers http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&searchlink=DOOBIE|BROTHERS&sql=11:os820r6ac489~T0 Their sound is a mish-mash of various styles, but all merged into Rock. Okay, so they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Why are there no Stones? I'm just curious, because they're usually the first ones you find on lists like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) The Stones might squeak in as "Soul" "Blues". http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2753 Edited September 17, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Or maybe Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Why are there no Stones? I'm just curious, because they're usually the first ones you find on lists like that. I've never seen a "rockism" list. Where could one find more of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Well I haven't either, but when I see a list with the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who and Pink Floyd, I in my ignorance expect the Rolling Stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Maybe the definition of "rockism" is that blaring Rock 'N Roll examples would be excluded from such a list. Say, par example, you exclude Roxy Music, then I can call you a "rockist" for discriminating against bands that make great music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I'm not sure if Led Zeppelin are any less obvious Rock than the Stones, but maybe I just misunderstood your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Maybe you did misunderstand because I did not write any band was less obvious than The Stones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Alright, I took it that you say that the most obvious examples are excluded, and that this is the reason for their absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 i.e. "Rockism" would be like you listing 13 albums by a bunch of famous and influential Rock bands and excluding The Beatles for some odd reason or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Hey, I found something! The links I provide kindof go over some of the basics. Rockism was a term first used in the 80s as a way of putting music into context in order to define quality in music. Certain tennants were recognized, but Kurt CObain sorta knocked down many of these tennants and since then there has been a new school of Rockism. This new school is above some of the things that were kindof accepted in the old school. For instance sexism, homophobia, racism(arguably), self-indulgance, etc. Perhaps most importantly the new school embraced the DIY spirit of the punks so that any band that is corporate rock sucks and any band that is Indie is good. The problem is that a lot of the new school ways have put the emphasis on image. They also seem more uptight (some are a bit posuerish) and not as much fun. Often musically alot of new bands copy a lot from the old school bands, but one of the biggest criticism of the new school is that the vocals seem whiney and overall the bands dont have as much of the 'fun' spirit... http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/140040/ In that case, lemme roll my sleeves (actually, I don't have sleeves at the moment) and get ta work on this crucial rockist list (ha! It rhymed...): - Arena Rock: Permanent Waves by Rush - Art Rock: For Your Pleasure by Roxy Music - BritPop: Rialto by Rialto - Indie Rock: Mellow Gold by Beck - Indie Rock/Alterno Pop: So Tonight That I Might See by Mazzy Star - Jazz Rock: Aja by Steely Dan - Kraut Rock: The Man Machine by Krafwerk - Neo Folk: The World That Summer by Death In June - Post Punk: The Return Of The Durutti Column by The Durutti Column - Power Pop: Free All Angels by Ash (this is what I would term as a "wild card") - Swedish Rock: Isola (in SWEDISH!) by Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I think PEW ought to give us a little refresher course in Rockist criteria, or a brief introduction for the uninitiated, otherwise we could end up on a real wild goose chase here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I've never seen a "rockism" list. Where could one find more of those? By checking out PaulEdwardWagemann's myspace site, or the previous thread all about Rockism here on SongFacts. It's a sort of hobby-horse of Paul's. From where I'm sitting, it looks like an excuse for rock snobbery, that forces one to consider a pointless deal of ethical eligibility criteria in order to determine whether one is entitled to enjoy a particular band or album with one's credibility intact. But that's probably an unfair critique, based upon a lack of understanding on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 To be fair, it's probably "an approach to honing one's skills in critical appraisal of rock phenomena, the better to truly achieve a more informed and profound appreciation of their overall position in rock's pantheon". A bit like becoming a wine connoisseur, only with guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 By checking out PaulEdwardWagemann's myspace site, or the previous thread all about Rockism here on SongFacts. It's a sort of hobby-horse of Paul's. From where I'm sitting, it looks like an excuse for rock snobbery, that forces one to consider a pointless deal of ethical eligibility criteria in order to determine whether one is entitled to enjoy a particular band or album with one's credibility intact. But that's probably an unfair critique, based upon a lack of understanding on my part. Hahaha. Looks like someone is trying to coin new words into the English language without permission. Elitism + Rock = Rockism If "rockist" is analogous to a wine connoisseur, then I'm all for beer tasting. PABST BLUE RIBBON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 It's a little bit silly that there are no Hendrix albums on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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