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PaulEdwardWagemann

Rockism: Good or Bad?

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For clarification, could you give some examples of artists that might be considered 'paragons' by Rockism criteria?

Just for fun, can you evaluate a few artists in terms of how you think they would be viewed by Rockist critics?

AC/DC

Alice Cooper

Beastie Boys

Foreigner

Grateful Dead

Excellent question. Each Rockist I've ever known has their own paragons--and they are not so large in scope as to include an entire band or that band's entire career. In fact looking at an artist as subjectively as possible is a very highly regarded trait in Rockism circles. This means that you can say that Bob Dylan is a genius lyricist, but he did have a tendency to ramble a bit at times in a boring and now dated manner (for example on his album he Times they are a-changin)...Yet at the same time there are specific albums, concerts, songs, moments in time even that Rockists will defened to their death as being the pinnacle of Rock perfection.

Each Rockist will probablly give you a different set of examples. It may be side two of Abbey Road, it may be Eddie Van Halen's intro into 'You Really Got Me' or it may be Sid Vicious passing out in a dirty hotel room as Nancy Spungeon bleeds to death.

The great thing about Rockism is that every Rockist can have his own paragon--just as long as he can (and will) defend his reasonings for it...

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Ok . Now , from your explanation above , I think I'm understanding this more clearly . Can be as little as a singular episode/ concert or a one particular track or the like , eh ? - and each person may differ in their choices ...

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Ok . Now , from your explanation above , I think I'm understanding this more clearly . Can be as little as a singular episode/ concert or a one particular track or the like , eh ? - and each person may differ in their choices ...

Well yeah, in responce to the question about a Rockism paragon, this is the way a Rockist works. For instance, do you have any moments/songs/albums/concerts/events that epitomize Rock (for you)?

If you do, a Rockist would ask you why does that thing you picked epitomize Rock--and themore knowledgible you are in regards to everything dealing with rock, then the more convincing your reasoning is going to be.

BTW, Rockists are generally not critics. Rockists are fans, collectors, enthusiastic, historians. They do give their opinions and they do sometimes write their opinions down, but they are most definatley NOT Rock Critics.

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This term 'rockist' - is it something you have invented, or does it have a recognised definition somewhere? Apologies if it does and has been explained elsewhere in this topic.

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Uh, like sentence #2 of this topic.

Were you asking me? .. P_E_W is the Rockist Scientet in this uncharted territory.

I'm a Rockist

She's a Rockist

He's a Rockist

Wouldn't you like to be a Rockist too?

Be a Rockist (Don't be poseur)

Be a Rockist (Don't be poseur)

The qualifications don't seem too tough:

Rockists are generally not critics. Rockists are fans, collectors, enthusiastic, historians. They do give their opinions and they do sometimes write their opinions down, but they are most definatley NOT Rock Critics.
It's not like you gotta be a Dr. Pepper or something.

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Yeah , Bazooka , but it is Rockist science , though ...

It seems , then , that Rockism / a rockist is merely a fancy label for anyone who has an opinion ( granted the more informed the better that opinion -as for anything , too ) about a musically/rock related item and whether or not it is authentic . And thus , ( as Bazooka seems to be having some fun with ) practically everyone , then , who at some time or other ( again the more often the stronger the 'label' , perhaps ) talks about what they think is 'real' in the world of music/rock , are acting as such - in other words : nearly everyone can claim to be a Rockist , if they wish to do so ?!

( are there degrees of Rockists -like in karate - you know , green-belts , black-belts and the like ? )

If that is the case , then is your original question in the thread title simply a reworded way to say the more riduculous sounding : Is having ( informed ) opinions about what the highlight moments of Rock are or were a good thing or a bad thing ?

To which I would answer : :stars: :confused: How can one answer this , and who cares that much , anyway ?

Right now , I have to turn my thoughts to 'Foodism' and decide what to make - I hope it is a highlight in the history of food , as well , as that would Rock ! ;) :rockon:

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The Urban dictionary said:

Posuer.

The CORRECT spelling of, though not as common as, poser. ironicly, the word's history is much like it's definition. a posuer is someone who desides to be something, act and/or dress a certain way to fit in or be cool, not because of what it stands for. This can apply to almost any walk of life, including but not limited to: punk, goth, emo, hardcore, skateboarding, snowboarding, and a certain band.

Given the atrocious standard of spelling and grammar in this definition alone, I think one could safely conclude that the Urban Dictionary is not to be trusted....

"The CORRECT spelling of 'poser'"..... :doh:

(Where's a gremlin that shakes its head in despair when you need one?)

Edited by Guest
In order to sound more pompous

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Yet at the same time there are specific albums, concerts, songs, moments in time even that Rockists will defened to their death as being the pinnacle of Rock perfection.

Each Rockist will probablly give you a different set of examples. It may be .......or it may be Sid Vicious passing out in a dirty hotel room as Nancy Spungeon bleeds to death.

The great thing about Rockism is ...

Nice side-swipe, I like that.

Never had much time for Sid myself...bit of an arsehole, really...(that's him, not me...)

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I don't know about anyone else, but this "Rockism" sounds like an over-rated pile of tosh to me... :o

What worries me though, is that the more I read about what it involves to be a Rockist, the more I suspect that I am one.... :blush: :crazy: :confused: :laughing: :o

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This term 'rockist' - is it something you have invented, or does it have a recognised definition somewhere? Apologies if it does and has been explained elsewhere in this topic.

Its a commonly used term--its mentioned in the articles I gave links to...

Here's an article that deals with it:

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5266352&showall=true

or you can try this one:

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/feature.php?ID=1666

Edited by Guest

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Hey PaulEd,

I have to say that I admire your grace under fire.

I've been needling you pretty relentlessy here and in some other threads, without applying any graemlins/emoticons/smilies to telegraph that it is all meant good-naturedly. bazooka usually avoids graemlins because he hates them all, not just the damned dancing banana (bazooka also often refers to himself in the third person, but that's a whole other issue).

The topics you come up with have perked up the Boards lately. Now if you just start using the Spel-Czech, you could be a top SongFactist.

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I'm not a Rockist Scientist, but Paul please get out more. Put down your Freshman Philosophy textbook. Put on some Jerry Lee Lewis, pound some brews and try to find some female companionship. It's only Rock n Roll, but I LIKE it.

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Hey PaulEd,

I have to say that I admire your grace under fire.

I've been needling you pretty relentlessy here and in some other threads, without applying any graemlins/emoticons/smilies to telegraph that it is all meant good-naturedly. bazooka usually avoids graemlins because he hates them all, not just the damned dancing banana (bazooka also often refers to himself in the third person, but that's a whole other issue).

The topics you come up with have perked up the Boards lately. Now if you just start using the Spel-Czech, you could be a top SongFactist.

I know that I am a pitiful little puppy dog who constantly nips at bazooka's heels, but I just can't help it. He cracks me up and his posts always make me happy. :grin:

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The reason no-one can agree upon which music is rockist is that the term doesn't apply to music but attitudes. And the attitudes aren't fixed creeds when it comes to the music itself (eg. synthesisers are bad) but much more positional and relational eg. "Between the [x] and [y], [x] is much better because..." Which is why you can have a rockism of hip hop, a rockism of dance music etc. - at this point I'd invoke my solar system model of rockism/indieness.

-- Tim Finney (tfinne...), October 4th, 2004.

no two people really seem to be able to agree what the term even really means. (Someone said "as little of black music as possible" - where I've always thought rockists are excessively concerned with authenticity deriving from blues roots.) But is this even a meaningful thing to be concerned about anymore? I could maybe see the use of critiquing rockism in the 70s and 80s. Now, it seems increasingly rare that anyone has a problem, say, with drum machines or songwriting teams or dance clubs, and thinks that everyone should listen to Dylan.

-- sundar subramanian (sundar_subramanian200...), October 4th, 2004. (3 trackbacks)

"True rockism" can't exist. Even the most die-hard deathmetallers I know have a favorite pop song in their closet somewhere.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), October 4th, 2004.

Edited by Guest

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I can't figure out if Paul is:

a) being open-minded and showing the other side of the argument

B) changing his view

c) contradicting everything he's said to this point about it

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I have read over this thread and I am happy to see that I am not the only one who gets confused as the thread goes on...I can't really comment on the issue of topic because I am so lost. :confused:

That's exactly how I feel since the beginning... :confused:

The only constructiv comment I could possibly make would be: "Yeah, what he said" or maybe "Me no speak your language" =:P

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