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did the sex pistols kill punk rock?


PaulEdwardWagemann
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The leather jackets, the bowl-cuts, etc were all part of the fun, but also a way of expressing unity in any who opposed them (gang-mentality if you will), it wasn't about trying to be a part of a pop movement...

Hey, wasn't there another band who started off in leather jackets (a la "Teddy Boys") and wore their hair in bowl-cuts? Anyone remember who that was originally?

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Due to family commitments, I am unable to respond to your points just now. In any case, I may reflect upon whether to bother responding or not. If I fail to do so, please do not interpret this as indicative of your having "won the argument", so much as my recognition of your apparent intransigence.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!! I WON!!!!!

*starts strutting about, singing Queens "we are the champions" and pumping arms in the air, before remembering to look to the heavens and give a shout out to the big man upstairs*

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Good question. Firstly you need to know that I regard the Sex Pistols as the greatest band ever & NO-ONE will sway me from that. I like, nay, LOVE many other bands & genres of music but for me, the Pistols are way, way out in front. Did they kill punk rock...? The obvious answer is no, of course not. The thing known as "Punk Rock" is, in 2006, alive & in the rudest of health, thanks by & large to a bunch of commercially motivated accountants who don't know the first thing about it. But, ok, I've read the rest of the comments & what we're REALLY discussing here is whether the Pistols were the real deal or just some manufactured coat hangers to sell McClaren & Westwood's latest clothing collection. Don't get me started. Too late. Hi Doug. See next installment.

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Much of the Sex Pistols received history is bogus. Written & re-written, mangled beyond recognition. The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle, a work based, if not entirely in fiction, then surely only in semi-truth has become Malcolm McClaren's "official" version. The rascally Svengali manipulating a band of ragged guttersnipes to achieve his own (in)fame(y) & (mis)fortune. Oh PLEASE! Come on, that's straight out of some Dickens novel. It's a lovely story & one that Malcolm was trying to propagate before the band split in '78, but that's Malcolm for ya, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story my dears" he would no doubt say & we should love the old goat for it. Malcolm's as much a part of this story as the band itself.

The Sex Pistols were not a punk band. There, I've said it. The Pistols & the scene they spawned was up & running in London some time before the British press, with it's usual desire to label & pigeon-hole decided to use the term "punk". The term had been coined to describe a variety of American bands centred around CBGB's in New York, not forgeting The Stooges from Detroit & of course the Dead Boys were from Cleveland but the point is that the British press spotted some obvious similarities & HEY PRESTO!!! British punk was not so much born, as synthesised in the NME's handy test-tube. It's a convenient label, granted, & one that the British bands, although initially reluctant to adopt, admittedly made little attempt to abandon once it had stuck & had afforded them a degree of success.

Did the Sex Pistols kill punk rock? Johnny Lydon (nee. Rotten) would no doubt say "If I had anything to do with it, YES!, I effin 'ope so..." but for the rest of us Johnny-come-latelys for whome "punk" has become a life style & way of thinking that defines much of our existence, no, the Sex Pistols ARE punk rock. Without them punk rock would be a fondly remembered foot note in American rock history. The Ramones, The Heartbreakers et al had to come to Britain to get any real recognition. The world wide phenomenon we call punk today would not have happened without the Sex Pistols. Did Sid Vicious kill punk rock? That's a better question! Debate.

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Bad grammer & spelling mistakes!
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So Johhny Rotten would say the Sex Pistols killed punk Rock, but you say they didnt--and exactly why should we believe you over him?

Also McLaren says the Sex Pistols were fabricated, but you say they werent. Again why should we believe you over someone who was actually in the thick of it all?

Last of all, you say Punk Rock is still alive?!?

May I ask you to give me your defintion of punk rock and then ask you for some examples of how it is still alive?

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I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but....

Also McLaren says the Sex Pistols were fabricated, but you say they werent. Again why should we believe you over someone who was actually in the thick of it all?

How about: "Because McLaren is an inveterate bullsh!tter who has made a career out of lies, distortion and mischievous disinformation. His mission? To massively exaggerate the extent of his influence over an uncontrollable chain of events, so as to reinforce his preferred legacy/fantasy: to be remembered as the arch-manipulator and architect of a social and cultural revolution".

So Johhny Rotten would say the Sex Pistols killed punk Rock, but you say they didnt--and exactly why should we believe you over him?

It's worth recalling that Rotten/Lydon didn't actually say the quote attributed to him. Pauly T merely suggested that such a response would be typically Lydonesque. Lydon is, I suspect, also sufficiently arrogant to claim credit for outcomes that were well beyond his control, and would do so with his usual wry, flippant drollery. It would also be quite understandable if he were pretty glad to see the back of "punk rock", which, once the media circus took over, resulted in him receiving street-beatings and his former-friend dying in sordid and tragic circumstances...

That's one thing the UK punk scene did get directly from your US "originals": heroin and junkie-hookers. That improved things a treat, I'm sure....

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I may be mistaken,and I'm sure you won't hesitate to point it out if I am, but I've always thought it would be reasonably fair to describe The New York Dolls as "attention-seeking" and as "poseurs". Perhaps there are some mitigating circumstances that, as in The Ramones' case, would excuse such shallow (and who knows, possibly even commercial) attributes.

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Rearrange my parentheses
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I assumed that, seeing as I can't remember you uttering an unoriginal word. I was merely heaping further vitriol unto David Johannsen, et al.

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Hey, you asked the question & I gave you MY answer. I don't care if punk's dead or not. I had MY fun back in the day! If punk to you means the heroin addled New York art scene of the '70s then, yes, the Sex Pistols probably DID kill YOUR idea of punk, but there are as many ideas of punk rock as there are punk rockers & there are millions of them world wide. Try telling THEM punk's dead! If it's important for you to believe the Sex Pistols were manufactured then fine. I couldn't care less.

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Couldn't have put it any better myself! May I also say that I'm not anti-Malcolm, his colourful version of events is all part of the tapestry that is the Sex Pistols story. He was the 5th Sex Pistol. He did contribute. He got the record deals & found ways to capitalise on extreme events that would've sent most bands under. What he DIDN'T do was put the band together or write any of the songs.

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As long as this is a punk thread, I'm going to say I got "Inflammable Material" by the Stiff Little Fingers today, and it's probably one of my favorite punk rock albums I've heard.

Anyways, coming home from school today, I saw proof that the spirit of punk is not dead. Today was the grand opening of a new Starbucks next to my school. It's getting ridiculous, since there is already a coffee shop across the street from our school, and I don't like coffee, but I've heard from friends it's great. Also, the street that my school is on already had 2 other Starbucks before this one. Three Starbucks within a 3 mile-long street? Seems stupid to me. Anyways, it was the grand opening, and there was a huge line coming out of Starbucks. So this punk band decided to protest, and played the loudest most obnoxious punk in front of the store, and it could be heard from football fields away. It totally ruined the artifical Starbucks "atmosphere" and was totally awesome.

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I don't know much about the 'spirit of punk' as I feel it was/is just a continuation of youthful rebellion evident from the first time Barney Rubble snuck out of the cave and tagged a mastadon. I just wish to congratulate Batman on his discovery of one of the seminal albums of the late 70s. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen SLF. I bet BF and myself rubbed beer-stained shoulders in the Leeds Irish Club on occasions without knowing it, whilst listening to the great Jake Burns and his sus-sus-sus-sus-sus-sus-suspect device...

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I feel like contributing to this thread for no reason other than the fact that it seems to be the 'in' thing to do, even though I have close to zero (maybe even less) knowledge about the topic in question.

3 things:

1. Write shorter sentences (what do you think my attention span is?)

2. try to use monosyllables.

3. Diggs, where are your Regards?

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I've always felt that, particularly in his early days, Iggy Pop was rather too much the "shy, introverted type": a bit of a "shrinking violet". If he had perhaps come out of his shell, allowed a little more of his exhibitionist side to the fore, he needn't have waited until after the UK "punk boom" to gain the international recognition he had craved back in the days of "hanging out with Bowie".

But then again, I've only been obsessed with punk for about 25 years, so what do I know....

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I feel like contributing to this thread for no reason other than the fact that it seems to be the 'in' thing to do, even though I have close to zero (maybe even less) knowledge about the topic in question.

3 things:

1. Write shorter sentences (what do you think my attention span is?)

2. try to use monosyllables.

3. Diggs, where are your Regards?

well said, radhi! i second that emotion! :laughing:

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