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NewYorkMets9

Need help with a school report

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Ok, here's the story. I get to do a 5 minute oral presentation on someone I consider to be an "Artist" based on the standard definitions. I chose Led Zeppelin (I wanted to the Beatles, but I let my friend do them because I'm nice).

Here's what I need help on:

1. I need to prove that they were "innovative." The obvious answer is that they pretty much created/popularized "hard rock" and "heavy metal". I have some proof from a "Columbia University Press" encylopedia entry stating as such, but I need more.

Does anyone have a legitimate source (book or credible website) with an article attesting to that?

2. I need to prove that they were influential. This kind of goes with the above, but I was hoping someone would have quotes from a band or artist saying that Zep influenced. I found something stating that Deep Purple turned to hard rock after hearing Zeppelin and they hired their singer (Ian Gillian, I think) because he reminded them of Robert Plant.

3. I need to prove a kind of technical innovation. I'm pretty sure they did all kinds of stuff with recording and guitar feedback. Can I use things like Jimmy Page using a bow to play guitar? Does anyone have solid facts?

4. Can I use songfacts as a source? I need to prove to my teacher that all my sources are 100% credible and legitimate.

Thanks guys

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1. This sort of thing is kind of hard to prove. Zeppelin definitely had a hand in the birth of "heavy metal" but I wouldn't really consider them a "metal" band. I think Black Sabbath was more of a direct "founder" of that particular genre - the power chords, detuned guitars and such. Zeppelin obviously had things like "The Immigrant Song" and "Kashmir", which were heavy. But they also had a ton of blues-based songs and folky acoustic stuff. I don't think they really set out to be a hard rock band.

2. You should be able to find a ton of quotes about personal Zeppelin influences. I know that Jeff Buckley said that Robert Plant was "my man", but that's all I can remember right now.

3. The bow on the guitar ("Dazed & Confused", "How Many More Times") should certainly count.

Also JP Jones' use of the Mellotron; he wasn't the first, but he was pretty original.

John Bonham supposedly wrapped his drum heads in tin foil, and was typically miked far away for a bigger drum sound.

They had a lot of songs with an Eastern/Indian music influence (Kashmir, Friends), and incorporated the instruments to a larger degree than the Beatles did previously.

They had tons of long, intricate songs (Stairway, Dazed & Confused, The Rain Song). This sort of thing hadn't really been exploited in pop/rock stuff yet.

The unaccompanied guitar solo in "Heartbreaker" was pretty original, and probably inspired 90% of new guitar players of that era. Same for the drum solo in "Moby Dick".

"The Battle Of Evermore" had a prominent mandolin part, which was also not really used in rock until Zeppelin.

Jimmy Page's doubleneck 6/12-string guitar was a first, I believe. This allowed him to play "Stairway" and "The Song Remains The Same" live, among other things.

They also did some cool stuff with reverb, like on "Whole Lotta Love" during Robert's little call and response section.

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4. Can I use songfacts as a source? I need to prove to my teacher that all my sources are 100% credible and legitimate.

The facts on the main site have all been researched thoroughly and should be able to be used as credible. The comments below the facts and the hot air we stir up here on the boards can be considered to be anything but legitimate. :grin:

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Joy Division had profoundly influence upon the future of music.

Check Out: Touching from a Distance-Deborah Curtis, Ian Curtis' wife/widow

If you have ever listened to Tool, you can tell Maynard James Keenean was influenced by Ian Curtis' vocals before he hanged himself at the age of 23.

Kurt Cobain, Nirvana, said JD's "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is the greatest song of alltime. i wouldnt agree with that atement, but it shows the influence they had upon bands. Moreover, there are striking similarities between Cobain's suicide and Curtis' suicide.

my avatar is Ian Curtis

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NYM wasn't asking about Joy Division, nor was he asking for band suggestions. As cool as Joy Division may be, they pale in comparison to Led Zeppelin with regards to cultural and musical influence. It would probably be in NYM's best interest to do an oral presentation on a band at least 10% of his audience has heard of.

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NYM wasn't asking about Joy Division, nor was he asking for band suggestions. As cool as Joy Division may be, they pale in comparison to Led Zeppelin with regards to cultural and musical influence. It would probably be in NYM's best interest to do an oral presentation on a band at least 10% of his audience has heard of.

You'd be amazed by how many people in my English class (high school seniors and AP students)didn't know what band "John, Paul, George, and Ringo" were from. Most of them only recognized it because of Ringo.

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Bands influenced by LZ also include Aerosmith, I think you can probably find a quote or two from them. Steven Tyler (I don't remember if the rest of the band was there) was the one who announced their induction into the rock and roll hall of fame. Also, Rush and Heart were both heavily influenced by them.

As for innovation, you can take into account many of Jimmy Page's studio innovations. He created the "backwards echo" technique which you can hear in many of their songs where you'll hear the echo of plant's voice before you hear his actual vocal.

They recorded quite a bit of music at a little cottage called Bron'Yr'aur (spelling?) using extremely creative ideas, such as that boomy sound the drums have on When the Levee Breaks they created by putting the drums at the bottom of the staircase and mic'ing them up at the top of the stairs, and getting that massive echo sound. Bonham also used the largest drumstick available, nicknamed "tree trunks" and held two in each hand for the song "four sticks" hence the name, going for a different drum sound.

They were also one of the only live acts of the day who would do "medley's". They called themselves a "band of nods". When they were in a song like Whole Lotta Love, at the bridge, one of them would nod, and the rest would know to follow his lead into some other tune. Sometimes performances of Whole Lotta Love would last upwards of 30 minutes because of this sort of thing.

And, you could simply do sales numbers. They are still one of the top 3? or is it 5, selling artists of all time, just within the past decade, eclipsed by Garth Brooks, I think. I think they even sold more albums than the Beatles. Though, don't quote me on that..

Anyway, yes, I think there's plenty of information you can gather for this type of report. You'll probably have a hard time picking and choosing what to use. :)

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Das, in response to your first post, I'm not trying to prove that they were a heavy metal or hard rock band, I'm just trying to prove that they were pioneers and innovators of the genre, which is pretty undeniable.

Led Zep's first two albums (arguably their hard-rockiest) came out before Black Sabbath's first 2 albums. One could argue that Sabbath was even influenced by Zeppelin. I can't prove that, but it seems impossible that they weren't.

I can't find anything about bands being influenced by Zeppelin on the internet, can someone point me in the right direction?

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Here is a quote list by and about Zeppelin. About halfway down there is a category "Other Artists on Zeppelin". There looks to be a few things that might be of help to you.

By the way, I always thought Tori Amos was a raging psycho and her quotes on that site prove it. (Apologies to those that like her.)

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Here are some good ones I found:

"One of the things we picked up from Zep in the 70's is they would

play the same notes on guitar and bass and follow it, they play all

these lines together like leads together, which made for heavy."

- Steven Tyler, lead singer of Aerosmith, on Zeppelin, Egos and

Icons.

"A lot of it stems from my early involvement with things like Jimmy

Page, the energy side of his playing. In the past, that type of

playing was always frowned upon in the group. It was a joke - Boris

and I would be doing Zepplin covers at the sound check, and we'd

stop when everyone else showed up. But actually, we used to do

Zeppelin covers like `In My Time of Dying' in the very early days."

- Porl Thompson, ex-The Cure guitarist, in the September 1992 issue

of _Guitar_Player_.

"I steal from Jimmy Page all the time. You're too conservative.

Go back and listen, you'll hear I steal from him."

- Tori Amos, in _The_San_Francisco_Examiner_, 3/9/94.

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Ok, I found the sheet with the 6 criteria needed for the presentation.

1. Intro to artist

Easy. Led Zeppelin was blah blah blah, they're great, blah blah blah.

2. Show the value of the artist

I think this is where the "influence on other musicians" comes in.

3. Help us understand artist

I guess I would give background and explain about some of the lyrics. For example, they have the extensive blues influence, the blues covers, the Satanism B.S., and folky stuff

4. explain the art of making it (the art)

I think I give the information about recording techniques and maybe their influences on live concerts (a book I have claims that they were one of the first bands to have very long concerts, like 3 hours without a break, is that true?)

5. Themes of artist

Folk, mysticism, JRR Tolkien, drugs, blues, young girls......anything else?

6. explain who artist is timeless, universal, original, evokes a response

Timeless: one of the top selling artists ever, dominate classic rock radio

Universal: uhh, I don't know exactly. I guess they're popular everywhere?

Original: I'll fail to mention all the lyrics and things they ripped off. I think this goes back to the "value of the artist" thing

Evokes a response: ?

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You are forgiven for your Tori Amos comment, but only because you rock.

Sincerely,

Those That Like Her

may i become one of the undersigned? although, naturally peaches is automatically forgiven because i love her so much that i could never be upset with her!... plus, although tori is incredible and disgustingly talented, i do recognise that she is a little bit off-kilter!

p.s. das, i was listening to her cover of waits' 'time' on repeat today, wow.

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That's a great cover. I always liked her version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit", too. The best covers seem (to me) to be the ones that are completely different from the originals. But I also like Tim Buckley's cover of "Martha". Can't beat that original version, though. ;)

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