Siege Mentality

[invisible_r]

Rachel... the oil!!!

Yeah, she´s right... we should invent another kind of energy... the power of tomato!!!!

so what country do you think would get invaded? spain? italy? greece? who has the most tomatoes?

[katie_sane]

Wherever there are terrorists who pose a threat to us I feel we should go and search and destroy. That is the only proven method to dealing with steadfast terrorists.

I agree with you Uncle. I think you have summed it up perfectly.

[Uncle Joe]

I've always believed that the war in Iraq was one based upon economic superiority, ie, power.

The US and UK governments were not pleased that other "friendly" countries (Germany, France, Canada, Russia, etc.) were contracting favorable oil deals with Iraq despite agreements not to do so (UN resolutions re: human rights violations and WOMD). This gave those nations a leg-up on economic positioning in re: oil. Thus, the invasion and desolution of those deals. Did you really think that those nations were against the war purely for peace-loving reasons? C'mon, get real.

There were plenty of faces the US/UK could put on the decision to invade. Most people recognize that. It's no scoop that both sides have axes to grind.

I apologize for omitting Australia, Italy, Spain,Japan, et al as US/UK allies in this conflict. It's just that we get so used to hearing this described solely as a US endeavor that we sometimes forget that there were others. For whatever reason that is often not mentioned. Maybe the big, bad US bullied or bribed the others into this? That's the way the game is played isn't it? What's in it for me?

Anyway, we can all agree that war is bad. That Palestinians hate Jews. That Jews are sometimes too defensive. That oil is what currently oils the economy. That commerce goes on.

[Jenny]

IMO, Diggs has nailed it on the head. What a great description of our current "war on terror"

That said, I'm going to add this: the first Gulf War was solely over oil, not to liberate those poor,rich Kuwaitis. This one was started for revenge. Dubya wanted to get Saddam for trying to kill his daddy. As they say, don't mess with Texas!

As for "homeland security"...a bunch of guys who are paid to spin a color wheel every day to decide what threat level we're at. No wonder we don't have money for Social Security

[Addictedtoclassic]

RW, your statement about the cost of rebuilding Iraq made me think - where does all the money end up? - back into the US economy of course, as to my knowledge all major companies involved in the job are American!

Regards

That is only a half truth. We have US workers there providing services, but most of the goods being purchased are not coming from US companies. We are spending billions of dollars which is going into the pockets of corporations around the world so we decide to hire our own citizens to install all the new equipment.

Everyone, please remember what the US has actually accomplished in Iraq though. These people now have a better health care system (hospitals and clinics), much better educational systems, a better water system, small business owners are re-opening shops that were closed due to Hussein's reign, and we have allowed the people to choose their leaders rather then the leaders appointing themselves (although this seems to be quite a struggle). Many don't know this because it's rarely shown on television or read in the newspapers, but the US has raised the standard of living in Iraq and made it a healthier and more educated area (or at least they have started to). Hussein robbed his people of the essentials needed to survive and the US has made it possible for people to regain these simple things. Can any of you imagine living with little health coverage and hardly any educational facilities? How about going without public radio or public newspapers? Or being forced to close because of government sanctions. Everyone likes to focus on the bad, but there are many good things going on as well. These people are now being properly fed and clothed and cared for, something they haven't seen in a really long time.

Oh yeah, and P.S., "Liberate Iraq" has little to do with the war on terror. They are two separate issues being sought after by separate military groups. The "War on Terror" continues throughout the deserts of the Middle East as UN soldiers continue to search for Osama Bin Laden and his army.

[DiggsUK]

The 'word' is that Bin Laden is holed-up in Kashmir, and has been for some time now. Unfortunately both Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons, so no chance of bombing there then!

Regards

[Uncle Joe]

WOMD?? What are we waitin' for?

Time once again for a little Political Science from Randy Newman....

No one likes us-i don't know why

We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try

But all around, even our old friends put us down

Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?

No, they're spiteful and they're hateful

They don't respect us-so let's surprise them

We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and europe's too old

Africa is far too hot

And canada's too cold

And south america stole our name

Let's drop the big one

There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save australia

Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo

We'll build an all american amusement park there

They got surfin', too

Boom goes london and boom paree

More room for you and more room for me

And every city the whole world round

Will just be another american town

Oh, how peaceful it will be

We'll set everybody free

You'll wear a japanese kimono

And there'll be italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow

So let's drop the big one now

Let's drop the big one now

[Batman]

Well I hope it ends soon. Another attack is likely if we don't improve our world image. and while we are improving our image, we should stop driving such humongous cars. They make us look arrogant, and most other countries care about the environment more than us.

[invisible_r]

Well I hope it ends soon. Another attack is likely if we don't improve our world image. and while we are improving our image, we should stop driving such humongous cars. They make us look arrogant, and most other countries care about the environment more than us.

wow, you are indeed wiser than your 15 years!

[edna]

Batman is becoming a star!

[Addictedtoclassic]

Well I hope it ends soon. Another attack is likely if we don't improve our world image. and while we are improving our image, we should stop driving such humongous cars. They make us look arrogant, and most other countries care about the environment more than us.

I agree with that statement 150%. I wish car makers would concentrate on cars that get really good gas mileage (around 60 mpg or so) instead of worrying about how fast I can make it to the gas station.

[invisible_r]

I agree with that statement 150%. I wish car makers would concentrate on cars that get really good gas mileage (around 60 mpg or so) instead of worrying about how fast I can make it to the gas station.

it's not the fast cars that we have a problem with, it's the fact that americans tend to drive, as batman pointed out, huge cars, even in the city where there is no point to drive a jeep!

[Addictedtoclassic]

In the US we have decided that good gas mileage is not as important as speed, towing power, size, and looks. That's what I was referring to.

[invisible_r]

i think looks and speed is a more international thing!

[CanAm]

To quote Glenn Frey:

"It's getting so hip to knock the U.S.A.

If we're so awful, if we're so bad, you ought to check the night life in Leningrad" Or St. Petersburg these days.

I don't think too many people would disagree that the United States has made some egregiously bad decisions in the arena of foreign affairs. However, countries like Canada and many of those in the EU that consistently bash the US over its actions in Iraq, talk a lot about human rights but do precious little to punish countries that oppress their citizens. What did the UN do to try and stop the slaughter in Ruanda? Canadian general Romeo Dallaire told them what was happening and yet Canada and the EU nations did nothing.

What about Sudan? The Muslim government there has been committing genocide and yet few countries have done anything but talk about how horrible the situation is. Have the EU countries or Canada imposed economic sanctions on the governments of Zimbabwe, China or North Korea, all notorious for violating the basic human rights of their citizens? To the contrary, they all continue to trade with these countries. Will the US decision to invade Iraq end up helping the Iraqui people in the long run? Only time will tell. Were the motives of those in the US government who mad the decision to invade, purely altruistic? Undoubtedly not. But right or wrong, at least they tried to do something. It's easy to sit back and criticize the United States for its foreign policy decisions. The EU countries and Canada however, practise the worst kind of hypocrisy. They criticize countries that commit human rights violations, but continue to reap the benefits of trade with them. (As, admittedly does the United States). Maybe its time the EU and Canada stopped pointing fingers at the United States and started working with the Americans to find ways to bring the human rights violators to heel.

Inaction and hand wringing will accomplish nothing.

[Uncle Joe]

and most other countries care about the environment more than us.

They may talk a good game but when it comes to actions......nada.

[Kevin]

CanAm, while I don't disagree with your statements ,I can't help but feeling that being the liberal black-sheep of the N. American polity is a bad position for Canada. Certainly, we are found wanting when it comes to leadership or proper foreign policy decisions, but there are times when a dissenting voice, be it not from their own political discourse, is useful.

Canada, in most decisions, is a fraud ... however, we have a tradition of politicians who have ( self-serving at times ) have intended a higher good... Tommy Douglas, Pierre Trudeau, Sir John A. , Joe Clark, Diefenbaker, Stephen Lewis .... Greek to most , I assume.

[edna]

They may talk a good game but when it comes to actions......nada.

European politics are basically big liars. I don´t trust them nor whatever the EU says. Talk about social laws, which are their main achievement, or so they say... Europeans dislike Americans because of their politics but they forget that the USA saved them (us) from more than one problem... WWII, reconstruction of countries after the war, etc. They also think that all Americans are texan cowboys invading Grenada or so...

[Kevin]

You know , edna, you've inspired me to make a new thread ... IT's about time the States got some long overdue respect !!

[edna]

Oh, yes... ::

[invisible_r]

European politics are basically big liars. I don´t trust them nor whatever the EU says. Talk about social laws, which are their main achievement, or so they say... Europeans dislike Americans because of their politics but they forget that the USA saved them (us) from more than one problem... WWII, reconstruction of countries after the war, etc. They also think that all Americans are texan cowboys invading Grenada or so...

at least we have signed the kyoto treaty, something which the americans refuse to sign! i won;t say anything else in order to prevent a war in songfacts....

and never say that they saved us in wwii to english person, they will dislike you intensely!

[edna]

and never say that they saved us in wwii to english person, they will dislike you intensely!

Yet the US participation in WWII was They liberated Paris!!!

[Uncle Joe]

Yet the US participation in WWII was They liberated Paris!!!

Yes, and we had a damned good time in Nice, too.

[edna]

Yes, and we had a damned good time in Nice, too.

Sure, all the French girls were so happy with all those handsome men coming to rescue them!!! ::

[Addictedtoclassic]

It's amazing how the United States can police the entire world and keep pretty much everyone in check while being constantly hated for our actions. I'd like to see how many countries get horribly invaded, raped, tormented, and picked apart at the seems when the US closes its' eyes and tells everyone "you're on your own".