Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Farin

'27 dead' in Connecticut primary school shooting

Recommended Posts

In this very moment, let me say that I don't give a bleep for the shooter or what sort of life he had or whatever.

Why he did it? Because 1) he's a (bleep), sick, mentally ill, etc. 2) he had a gun.

Well, I do care about the kind of life he had, because it's a piece of the puzzle that unlocks why he committed such a heinous act, and if we can get a bit more understanding into the minds of people like him, we can prevent more senseless shootings like this.

The guns belonged to his mother, and they were legally obtained by her. So this isn't a gun control argument anymore. Now it's a mental health argument, and what more this country needs to do to help those who are on the brink of completely snapping. There are tens of millions of people in this country in exactly the same place he was in before he decided to do this. What can we do to keep them safe?

I can be angry and full of rage for the atrocity he committed, but I can also hope to find out more about WHY so that it doesn't happen again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, I should add that the reason I feel as strongly as I do about this is because I have a friend with a mental illness, and I've worked with people who have mental disabilities, ranging from mild to quite profound. None of them have violent tendencies, but what separates those that do from those that don't has always interested me.

We need better health care in this country, especially in the mental health sector. I'm never going to stop banging that drum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have friends with disorders -they are on medication and you could never tell they are "insane". They take their medicine each and every day.

Trouble is when people are not diagnosed and/or treated. I have known many of those too. They never killed anybody, maybe except themselves, eventually.

In Europe, teen mass murders are seen as something very typical of the US... :stars:

I guess that having easier access to a gun helps.

Yet people still have the right to defend themselves.

Maybe keeping your guns safe and not letting your disturbed children take them...? I have no idea...

This is part of the hall of greatest tragedies that could ever happen. Nonsense. God bless the victims' souls and help their families.

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no use in trying to ascribe blame to one person or thing. It's just going to make us argue and be mad at each other. As humans, we always try so hard to justify horrible things happening because if we can't, we have to face the fact that we live in a chaotic world where terrible things happen that aren't within our control and we don't like that. Evil is real, it is alive, it exists very prevalently. We would rather not talk about it, not look at it because maybe if we pretend it isn't there it will go away. But it won't. There are evil people and there's nothing that will ever stop that.

We need better mental healthcare in our country, absolutely, without question. We need better gun control, yes, absolutely. But don't think this will solve any problems. Just remedy them a bit.

There's no one thing you can blame for this tragedy, just as there is no one thing you can blame for any tragedy. Don't argue about who's to blame or what's to blame. It's divisive and accomplishes nothing. Combating this tragedy with anger and arguing just compiles the anger and sadness, and that's not what we need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(you have to be buzzed in and go through the office)

This is how the schools are here - at least the ones my kid went to. There are heavily chained/locked wrought iron gates at every opening, and while school is in session - and even when it's not - the only way on for a non student is through the office. And you have to be signed in and get a visitor badge to walk anywhere on campus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Pink and Edna have pointed out, this is affecting folks with mental health problems in ways they're not used to. If you're a person with Asperger's or severely introverted, suddenly you're perceived as scary and not just different.

Hoping some good comes out of this in the form of better treatment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand Pink's POV and Edna's as well because we don't get shootings in schools here. Little access to weapons makes it difficult. And most of the "insane" and other colorful terms some of you have used are treated within our medical system.

I, too, am a victim of mental illness. It's a side-effect of my epilepsy medication (story for another day), anyway, I'm saying if he was treated and mom didn't have enough guns for a platoon those kids would be safe.

It still sucks that little kids died because of it. :(

323185_10151128622936933_1188688784_o.jp

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I too have know people with mental illness, and we need to realize that most all people like this are peaceful loving individuals.

No anti-social, troubled, isolated person should have unfettered access to weapons like this.

We need to all look around and recognize a time-bomb when we see one.

We need maybe not so much more laws, but more resources and better "enforcement" of laws.

I don't see the point in an average citizen having such easy access to "assault weapons", really don't think that's a self defense or constitutional issue, certainly our fore-fathers would not have seen a private citizens possession of a Gatling gun, (had it been invented then) as an inalienable right, I don't see that.

But it's so obvious that people with pent-up rage, who are recognized and addressed can be very harmful to our society.

As Carl said, hopefully something can come from this to honor those who have paid such a high price for this lesson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

serious question here: what if we know someone personally who has all the elements of being that time bomb? I have no idea what access he has to guns, his parents don't own them. This is a young man, an adult, and has the potential to be very dangerous. What do you do? He's done nothing wrong at this point, so there's no arresting him. He refuses mental health care - to even see a qualified professional - which is his right as an adult and undiagnosed with any mental or emotional disorder at this point. He's a sociopath from the looks of things. And a very angry one at that.

What do you do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to come on here and argue who or what is to blame. All know is that these massacres are happening way too often. We need to change a lot of things in this country, not just to point fingers in one direction. We need to look at many aspects of our society like how the media reports these incidences, mental health, gun control, even how we treat each other, both in person and on-line.

Howver, idon't want armed guards at school. Who wants to live like they're in a war zone? Not me. I don't want armed guards everywhere. IMO, that is not freedom and it would not make me feel safer.

I didn't tell my daughter what happened in Connecticut. Is that sheltering her? I don't know. I know that I don't want her to be afraid to live her life. IMO, that is giving monsters like these the ultimate victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

serious question here: what if we know someone personally who has all the elements of being that time bomb? I have no idea what access he has to guns, his parents don't own them. This is a young man, an adult, and has the potential to be very dangerous. What do you do? He's done nothing wrong at this point, so there's no arresting him. He refuses mental health care - to even see a qualified professional - which is his right as an adult and undiagnosed with any mental or emotional disorder at this point. He's a sociopath from the looks of things. And a very angry one at that.

What do you do?

IANAL, but if you believe someone to be a danger to themselves or to others, you can have them committed. I don't know what the law is in your jurisdiction, so you'd have to look that up, but you can have someone involuntarily committed for their own safety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Shawna, you could report it to DSHS, tell them that you will be also contacting local media, this way you feel better, having "alerted" authorities to this "issue", and hopefully it will be helpful.

Jenny, depending on the age and demeanor of the child, sometimes it's better to be quiet.

I don't like being felt-up and xrayed down to my birthday suit to get on a plane, but if that's the best way to stay alive, I guess we have to give up some liberty to stay living these days.

Some studies have lent credibility to violence in our films, games, tv show. if you look back to the first have of the twentieth century, you'll be hard-pressed to find the violence we have today. Can't be population, or India would be surpassing us by a long-shot.

We are an incredibly violent culture, just look around, I find it hard to believe this doesn't tie in to the murders we endure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't tell my daughter what happened in Connecticut. Is that sheltering her? I don't know. I know that I don't want her to be afraid to live her life. IMO, that is giving monsters like these the ultimate victory.

Yes Jenny, you did the right thing by not telling her...If she happens to hear about it or starts asking questions, then listen to what she's saying and how she feels and try to answer the best you can..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just the thing about mental illness...if not guilty of anything then you can't just lock him up against his will...the person needs to want to change and ask for help...if a child has a disorder or mental illness than the parents can get the proper treatment, counciling, meds, or whatever the case may be....

This was posted in our office at work...thought I would share it with you all..

TALKING TO KIDS ABOUT THE SCHOOL SHOOTING

1. Validate their feelings. “Let them understand that they are entitled to feel how they’re feeling,” said Elizabeth Stults, a licensed mental health counselor who has a pediatric practice in the Back Bay area. They might be scared, angry, or anxious, or they might not be affected much at all since it happened far from where they live.

2. Explain that events like these are very rare. Although parents can’t tell kids that a school shooting or movie theater shooting will never happen in Boston, they can stress the point that such occurrences are very rare, which is why they’re big news when they do happen.

3. Feel free to answer “I don’t know” to tough questions. Kids may ask why the shooter killed elementary school kids and teachers. Or they may wonder how God could allow this to happen. “Sometimes you have to say, I don’t have an answer to that, or what do you think?” said Karen Ruskin, a psychotherapist based in Sharon. “Just make sure you answer honestly.”

4. Give kids a little leeway to deal with their anxieties. If a child wants a parent to walk him or her into school for a few days, try to accommodate that request. “But also explain that we can’t stop living our life,” said Stults.

5. Develop a safety plan if such an event ever did occur. This can help kids gain a sense of control. “Talk to them about what they could do if someone started shooting,” said Ruskin. “Maybe run at super-speed or hide under the chair.” Kids will feel more secure if they have a plan in mind for dealing with the unthinkable.

6. Keep the conversation at your child’s age level. “If your kid is young and hasn’t heard about it,” said Ruskin, “you don’t need to discuss it,” especially if your child doesn’t bring it up. On the other hand, parents may want to start a conversation with older kids who are likely to read the news on the Internet or hear about it from friends. “If children don’t want to talk about it, that’s okay,” Ruskin added. “Don’t make your issues into their issues.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like being felt-up and xrayed down to my birthday suit to get on a plane, but if that's the best way to stay alive, I guess we have to give up some liberty to stay living these days.

For one, this doesn't work. It's security theater, and it's main job is to make you FEEL safer, which isn't the same thing as actually making you safe. If someone wants to bring down an airplane, they will. No amount of crotch-grabbing, x-raying, or wanding is going to change that. Two, as Benjamin Franklin said (paraphrase), those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither. I don't steal from stores, but I wouldn't be okay with a store policy mandating that upon exiting the store, your entire person will be searched for possible stolen goods, including your body and your purse. Just because I don't do it, doesn't mean I would be okay with being subjected to that.

To another point you made, there was just as much violence in the first half of the 20th century as there was in the last half. There was murder, rape, child molestation, terrorism, drug use, alcohol abuse, mass violence and everything else that we know today. The "good old days" were not good....they were just old. The idea that they were some peaceful bucolic time when people skipped down the lane to see Wally and the Beav after getting cookies at Donna Reed's house is what television and movies have taught and conditioned us to think. My parents were born in 1949, and life was just as rough then in terms of violence as it was when I was born in 1982.

The reality is, as long as there has been humanity, there has been violent humans. This is before radio, television, and the Internet. Blaming video games, violent movies, or heavy metal on an abundance of violence is ridiculous, because violence predates all of that, and will exist long after it's all gone. The major difference between then and now is that the media didn't report on and sensationalize violence the way it does now. The same as they didn't report on and sensationalize the private lives of celebrities and politicians the way they do now. Few people at the time knew that FDR was in a wheelchair. No one outside the Press Corps knew JFK screwed around on his wife. Kids were abducted, women were raped, people were shot, but this was before 24-hr news cycles, so it was never reported on the way those things are now.

THAT'S what has changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what would I tell the local media? He's not guilty of anything at this point except a personality defect.

You don't actually contact the media, you just make DSHS "think" you are, they are paranoid of BAD publicity, and are more likely to investigate and or monitor to save embarrassment *if* something happens. Sometimes you have to wave your arms in the air, jump up and down and get noticed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To another point you made, there was just as much violence in the first half of the 20th century as there was in the last half. There was murder, rape, child molestation, terrorism, drug use, alcohol abuse, mass violence and everything else that we know today. The "good old days" were not good....they were just old. The idea that they were some peaceful bucolic time when people skipped down the lane to see Wally and the Beav after getting cookies at Donna Reed's house is what television and movies have taught and conditioned us to think. My parents were born in 1949, and life was just as rough then in terms of violence as it was when I was born in 1982.

The reality is, as long as there has been humanity, there has been violent humans. This is before radio, television, and the Internet. Blaming video games, violent movies, or heavy metal on an abundance of violence is ridiculous, because violence predates all of that, and will exist long after it's all gone. The major difference between then and now is that the media didn't report on and sensationalize violence the way it does now. The same as they didn't report on and sensationalize the private lives of celebrities and politicians the way they do now. Few people at the time knew that FDR was in a wheelchair. No one outside the Press Corps knew JFK screwed around on his wife. Kids were abducted, women were raped, people were shot, but this was before 24-hr news cycles, so it was never reported on the way those things are now.

THAT'S what has changed.

Amen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all your in depth extensive studies of children and adolescence subjected to hours upon hours of violent images of simulated violence like Call of Duty and Halo, and films where heroes gun down dozens of people combined with anti-social isolation of the internet, and lack of unified parental guidance... can contribute substantially to a person "snapping" and slaughtering people like they are inanimate objects without meaning purpose or substance?

Okay... okay.. I just wanted to get that straight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all your in depth extensive studies of children and adolescence subjected to hours upon hours of violent images of simulated violence like Call of Duty and Halo, and films where heroes gun down dozens of people combined with anti-social isolation of the internet, and lack of unified parental guidance... can contribute substantially to a person "snapping" and slaughtering people like they are inanimate objects without meaning purpose or substance?

Okay... okay.. I just wanted to get that straight.

I don't even know who you're talking to, however I'm bored so I'll respond.

I think it's a cop-out to solely blame violent video games, the Internet, or lack of parental guidance. There's a lot of factors that go into what makes someone do what this kid did. His mother was a paranoid survivalist who stockpiled guns for the upcoming end of days. Her son was mentally disturbed and had unfettered access to her completely outrageous and unnecessary arsenal. According to articles I read, her ex-husband begged her to get their son into therapy or some kind of treatment for his issues, and she didn't think it was a big enough deal. This kid was screwed over by a myriad of factors, none of which absolve him from blame for what he did, but they explain how and why.

For every 1 person who plays Call of Duty and Halo and then decides to go see if they can do that in real life, there are tens of thousands of people who don't. Is that the game or the player? For every 1 person who spends absurd amounts of time on the Internet, eschewing face-to-face conversation with human beings, there are tens of millions who don't. Is that the person or the Internet? For every 1 person who doesn't have strong guidance at home because their parents are divorced or work all the time, and then lash out because they're angry and lonely, there are tens of millions who don't

This school shooting didn't happen because the shooter played violent video games, or like violent movies, or had sh*tty parents. This happened because he was mentally unbalanced, and mentally unbalanced people lack the ability to separate real life from fantasy. Millions and millions of kids in this country play video games but don't go shoot up their schools, or malls, or churches. I can watch Saw IV and know that it's fake, and not real....someone whose mind is broken cannot. The movie is not the problem. The untreated sickness is the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree.

I hear and read alot in the wake of this tragedy about "banning guns".

That's like blaming your stove because you burnt dinner, or blaming eggs because your souffle turned out badly.

Would anyone blame a saw for cutting someone finger off? Or a hammer for smashing a thumb?

Personal responiblity.

It seems obvious, to even my son, that over exposure to violences numbs people. That's why he doesn't want to play shootem'-up games, were it's very realistic, and blood splatters all over, heads blow off, or watch movies like Kill Bill films where EXTREME and realistic violence in depicted.

So while I agree, violence has been around FOREVER, hell if you believe in the bible, the first two kids, brothers? One killed the other with a stone to the head.

But today, kids have access to films and video game violence in their livingrooms or bedrooms, and can (and are in many cases) subjected to hours and hours of these material on a daily basis. Studies have found that "anyone" subject to such a barrage material like this become "immune" to it, it is just routine.

This monster in Conneticut shot these little kids MULTIPLE times, and reloaded a number or times?!! This is beyond sick and demented, this is purely evil and calculated cold-blooded murder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×