Farin Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Band may owe campfire songwriter millions in royalties after court rules they plundered flute riff on 80s hit [smaller]Associated Press in Sydney | guardian.co.uk | Thursday 4 February 2010 | Link[/smaller] Australian band Men at Work copied a well-known children's campfire song for the flute melody in its 1980s hit Down Under and owes the owner years of royalties, a court ruled today. Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree was written more than 70 years ago by Australian teacher Marion Sinclair for a Guides competition – the song has been a favourite around campfires from New Zealand to Canada. The teacher died in 1988, and publishing company Larrikin Music owns the copyright to her song about the native Australian bird. Larrikin filed the copyright lawsuit last year. "I have come to the view that the flute riff in Down Under ... infringes on the copyÂright of Kookaburra because it replicates in material form a substantial part of Ms Sinclair's 1935 work," the federal court Justice Peter Jacobson said. He ordered the parties back in court on 25 February to discuss the compensation Larrikin should receive from songwriters Colin Hay and Ron Strykert, and Men at Work's record companies Sony BMG Music Entertainment and EMI Songs Australia. Outside the court, Adam Simpson, Larrikin Music's lawyer said the company might seek up to 60% of the royalties that Down Under earned since its release, an amount that could total millions. The songwriters and their record companies did not immediately comment. Down Under and the album Business As Usual topped the Australian, US and British charts in early 1983. The song remains an unofficial anthem for Australia and was ranked fourth in a 2001 music industry survey of the best Australian songs. Men at Work won the 1983 Grammy award for best new artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindCrime Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 It took them 28 years to get to this complaint? please, I hope it doesn't pass. They should've did something about it when the songwriter was still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I don't hear the similarity, although I am partial to Colin Hay since he gave us a great interview a while back. I've that riff over and over and never once thought of Kookabura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yeah, I think this is a bad precedent. There have been variations on themes every since there have been themes. That is the evolving nature of music. Every song revolves around 8 basic notes; are they all infringements? It's like the beating George Harrison took for "My Sweet Lord" from the "He's So Fine" folks. And at least that case featured a suit filed right after the song came out. Like Mindcrime pointed out about this case, it's rather odd that it took the music publishers 28 years of hearing this big hit song to suddenly one day say, "Hey, I just figured where I have heard that tune before!" And then to want 60% of Down Under's earnings? Hogwash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonoskitty Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I can't believe this ruling. This foolish judge has set an ugly precedant. Every word has been sung and every note played in some song somewhere. Songs use Chuck Berry's famous 'duckwalk' riff. Elmore James famous opening riff has been used by 1,000's of Blues artists and a blues formula is so simple it has been used by millions. I have songs with Bill Haley guitar riffs and the list goes on. The original version of Down Under was the B-Side to Men at Work's first Single called Keypunch Operator. It is even more reggae than the hit. If Down Under was not the hit that it was, this ridiculous situation would never have eventuated. It takes alot to rile me but this has really got under my skin and up my nose. Kookaburra is a terrific 'kids' song. Down Under put Australia on the sports and music map. No Comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chutzpah Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I'm familiar with both songs...wow, simularities but, IMO nah...sounds like someone's looking for money...and it's not Marion Sinclair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yeah, I think this is a bad precedent. There have been variations on themes every since there have been themes. That is the evolving nature of music. Every song revolves around 8 basic notes; are they all infringements? You're right, of course, about variations on themes and the 8 basic notes thing, but on the other hand: "Down Under" is a song about an Australian, and Australian-ness (with its famous reference to a Vegemite sandwich), so it plays on quintessentially Australian features and cultural stereotypes. A Kookaburra, meanwhile, is a fancy bird native to Australia, and closely associated with the country, largely on the strength of the world famous kids singalong song "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree". So, if there is a demonstrable similarity between the flute riff and the Kookaburra song, it can't easily be passed off as mere happenstance, can it? The old "there's only so many combinations of notes and chords" argument doesn't really stand up. If the flute riff had, instead, plagiarised "Waltzing Matilda", would not the creator of that song be entitled to claim some recognition for the borrowing of their iconic work? If the musicians in question, who must undoubtedly have been familiar with the song they had lifted that flute solo from- had made an effort to recognise the originator of the Kookaburra song in the first place, seeking permission and paying a legitimate sum for the right to use the music, including them in songwriting credits etc., then there would be no need for legal action now, would there? That's what a performer who knowingly replicates another's tune/lyric in his own work is supposed to do, I believe. And then to want 60% of Down Under's earnings? Hogwash! 60%? That does seem a bit over the top, mind you. It was only the flute solo, fer pity's sake. All in all, if Men At Work had been arrested and thrown in the clink before they released "Down Under", the world would have been a better place today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Having said that, I once murmured "ridicule is nothing to be scared of" as a backing vocal on a song appearing on my band's first album (and which was played on the radio), but Adam Ant never saw a penny in royalties from it. To be honest, when I did that I never imagined anybody would ever notice. And indeed, they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 It's out of the bag now. Quick! Submerge your assets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyteen Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I've posted a pole based on this "Down Under" versus "Kookaburra" lawsuit, in the "Questions and Answers" forum, if any of you Songfacts members wants to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyteen Posted December 1, 2010 Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 I don't hear the similarity, although I am partial to Colin Hay since he gave us a great interview a while back. I've that riff over and over and never once thought of Kookabura. I wonder, would you please be so kind as to post the Songwriter Interview you had with Colin Hay in the "Songwriter Interviews" section? I'd love to read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzikTyme Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 I dunno. But I think that anyone that thinks the flute solo from Men at Work was copied should eat a vegamite sandwich w/a six-foot-four tall muscular man from Brussels at a secret Colorado mansion known as . . . ; the "Meadows!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzikTyme Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Having said that, I once murmured I'd officially like to include the above into "'fitter's archives of whimsical nonsense" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 I wonder, would you please be so kind as to post the Songwriter Interview you had with Colin Hay in the "Songwriter Interviews" section? I'd love to read it! Annabelle, I did that interview before we had a way to post the full versions, but I'm hoping to get it formatted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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