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Grammys 2010


Carl

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I think it's wrong to just say that Lady Gaga is bad because she sells an image before she sells music. Not that I'm a huge Lady Gaga fan or anything, but she's a visual artist rather than a musical artist. Watching her perform is like watching an outrageous musical. You're probably not going to go home and listen to the soundtrack (unless you're one of those high school theater nerds), but the show was put together well and you'll enjoy it.

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That's just who she is - Lady Gaga is all about image first and talent second, and in the pop world image IS more important than actual skill. So for me it is quite the opposite and I admire the fact that not only does she completely pwn the pop world's idea of selling an image, but she also has the talent to back it up with. I like to believe that her exhibitionist tendencies are her taking irony to a whole other level - a subtle satire of the popular music culture.

I too think it's a bit of satire, as evidenced by the thing she did at the Grammys where she was dropped in some huge machine at "The Fame Factory." Then she just started shouting "TAKE MY PICTURE HOLLYWOOD! I WANNA BE FAMOUS!"

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For me, I respect Lady Gaga as a singer. She has a voice. She also is an incredibly good piano player, I believe she is classically trained. But does she ever play piano in her songs? Not often. That bothers me. It bothers me that she would rather sell her image, the idea of her, rather than her talent.

That is what bothers me about Lady Gaga. She is far from talentless, I think she is merely a product of our generation. A generation that values image, specifically sexual image, over talent. Were this a few years back, she may be playing piano as well. Who knows? I mean, David Bowie sold his image, but he also had the talent to back it up. To me it seems like Lady Gaga wants to be the female, hip-hop David Bowie.

That bothers me...

The Monkees

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Yea I know. It's just unfortunate. I've always enjoyed listening to music that requires talent.

But that's me.

Now let me begin this by again saying that I don't like Lady Gaga and don't listen to her, but it definitely takes talent to do what she does. It's not like everyone with a glamorous image and a desire to be famous is able to achieve pop stardom. It takes talent to write a song that lots of people like. If you want proof of that just check out the "pop" section on myspace music. It's full of people who desperately want to be famous and construct outrageous images for themselves, but they don't have the ability to write a song that a lot of people want to listen to.

In addition to the music it takes a lot of talent to design sets, choreography, and costuming. These things don't really prove anything about her musical talent, but they do go to show that she is a talented performer. It's like I said earlier, Lady Gaga is more of a stage performer than a traditional musician.

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Yeah I know how you feel, I've been playing instruments since I was 6 so I also tend to gravitate towards music when it comes to art. But not all art requires musical talent, so I try to open my mind a little and appreciate the art that doesn't require musical talent sometimes (movies, books, plays, etc.). It's still pretty hard to leave the comfort zone of music though.

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I guess I'm just asking, why make the distinction? Some artists are musical, some are visual. I don't care that you don't like Lady Gaga, I just don't like the thing about our generation valuing image over talent. I guess you could say that our generation values the visual over the aural, but I'm not even sure if I would agree with that.

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I like listening to music that I can aspire to. Music where I listen to it and think "Wow, that's impressive. So intelligently composed and put together." But that's my personal preference. Why? I have no idea. I can appreciate people being visual artists, and I appreciate the fact that Lady Gaga is a visual artist. I just don't like her music. They're catching pop songs that require the instrumental talent of pressing a button on a drum machine. I give her credit for singing well and creating catchy tunes. I just personally don't like it. I am obviously in the minority being that she is so incredibly popular and is ripping the charts like a grizzly bear in a campsite.

But, that is, and will remain to be, my personal preference.

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I'm not trying to convince you that Lady Gaga makes good music, I'm just trying to convince you that Gaga's popularity isn't due to our generation not caring about talented artists, it's because our generation tends to respect visual artists more than musical artists (and even that isn't entirely true depending on where you are).

Also, if you think writing catchy pop songs is as simple as "pressing a button on a drum machine," you are mistaken. First of all, have you ever played a drum machine? It's not as simple as you'd imagine. Composing the rest of the music with synthesizers is even more difficult.

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I'm not trying to convince you that Lady Gaga makes good music, I'm just trying to convince you that Gaga's popularity isn't due to our generation not caring about talented artists, it's because our generation tends to respect visual artists more than musical artists (and even that isn't entirely true depending on where you are).

Also, if you think writing catchy pop songs is as simple as "pressing a button on a drum machine," you are mistaken. First of all, have you ever played a drum machine? It's not as simple as you'd imagine. Composing the rest of the music with synthesizers is even more difficult.

What I was saying, and I'm assuming didn't get across, is that our generation is less concerned with instrumental proficiency and more concerned with a sexual image. So it seems to me at least.

And take my phrase of "pressing a button on a drum machine" as a hyperbolic expression. I realize it is more difficult than quite literally doing that, I just feel that the complexities of her music pale in comparison to much other music.

But again, this is merely the opinions and perceptions of one man.

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Mine too, really. But unlike a lot of top 40 crap, I understand why Lady Gaga is liked, even on a musical basis. Not my thing, but I get it. Besides, an artist can play instruments and still produce some godawful s**t (see: Creed).

Very much agreed. Not all music that is full of instrumental complexity is incredible.

And I even like some music that doesn't require too much instrumental complexity or intelligence. I mean, I like hair metal ;)

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What I was saying, and I'm assuming didn't get across, is that our generation is less concerned with instrumental proficiency and more concerned with a sexual image. So it seems to me at least.

I just don't get why you think this. Or at least why Lady Gaga is proof of this. What she's selling is visual art, not just a sexy image. I don't even know of anyone who thinks she's attractive. Most people I know think she used to be a man actually. I do agree that people care less about instrumental proficiency, but I don't think it's because everyone became horny all of the sudden and they weren't that way in the past. I think our generation just admires visual art more than musical art, or at least moreso than our parent's generation. That's why music videos are so popular, and why people today try to do something more with a music video than just show the band play a song in an empty room.

And take my phrase of "pressing a button on a drum machine" as a hyperbolic expression. I realize it is more difficult than quite literally doing that, I just feel that the complexities of her music pale in comparison to much other music.

But again, this is merely the opinions and perceptions of one man.

Yeah I think I agree with you then. I was thinking you were saying that drum machine usage in and of itself was simple, but I guess that's not what you meant. I've personally found that physical instruments are much easier to figure out than electronic instruments, but that could be because I've been playing the physical instruments much longer. I agree that Gaga's music isn't all that it could be, though. Since I prefer music over visual art, and know that she's very skilled in music, I think it would be cool to see her do more with it.

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I just don't get why you think this. Or at least why Lady Gaga is proof of this. What she's selling is visual art, not just a sexy image. I don't even know of anyone who thinks she's attractive. Most people I know think she used to be a man actually. I do agree that people care less about instrumental proficiency, but I don't think it's because everyone became horny all of the sudden and they weren't that way in the past. I think our generation just admires visual art more than musical art, or at least moreso than our parent's generation. That's why music videos are so popular, and why people today try to do something more with a music video than just show the band play a song in an empty room.

Seems to me that a lot of music videos are exactly that, although I've seen a nice resurgence in artistic videos. Perhaps Lady Gaga isn't the best example of what I'm saying. And it's not really a new thing that people like sex. It's just more prominent. Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera etc etc. Seems people would rather listen to a song about Britney Spears in a three-way rather than about something intelligent or poetic.

Why do I feel this way? I could go into a long-winded, multifaceted explanation as to what I believe music is and how I feel about it but I feel that no one would be terribly interested. It is merely my opinion and nothing more. You can believe it or discredit it, I won't ask you to do either.

Debates and freedom of thought are what makes the human experience interesting ;)

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Yeah I suppose sex in marketing (music and otherwise) is more pervasive today. Or if it's not more pervasive, it's at least more obvious. Like in the 60s, with the Beatles, they definitely used their good looks to market themselves to girls, but they weren't posing nude in magazines or anything. But in my opinion it's not really that different today than in the 70s. Now you have hot girls in bras singing about lovely lady lumps, and in the 70s you had a shirtless Robert Plant singing about squeezing his lemon.

One trend I think that is interesting now is that stuff like the Jonas Brothers is getting popular with the younger girls. In terms of marketing their sexuality, they are kind of like the bands of the early 60s in that they have a squeaky clean image but still base most of their marketing scheme on subtle sexuality.

Debates and freedom of thought are what makes the human experience interesting ;)

Oh definitely. That's why we're having this discussion right?

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Now you have hot girls in bras singing about lovely lady lumps, and in the 70s you had a shirtless Robert Plant singing about squeezing his lemon.

Well actually that lemon line was from an old Robert Johnson tune, so we've had Robert Johnson singing about squeezing his lemon since the 20s or so haha.

One trend I think that is interesting now is that stuff like the Jonas Brothers is getting popular with the younger girls. In terms of marketing their sexuality, they are kind of like the bands of the early 60s in that they have a squeaky clean image but still base most of their marketing scheme on subtle sexuality.

I do find this interesting. It bothers me that Disney has decided that any of it's television stars needs to release an album. Quite unfortunate.

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