Is the Music Business misogynistic?

[Farin]

see this article:

[big]Women are making inroads in pop. But men still call the tune[/big]

As the New Musical Express appoints its first female editor, the music business is starting to shed its misogynist image. But for many women, from performers to publicists and record label executives, the glass ceiling is still very much in place

[smaller]Anushka Asthana | The Observer | Sunday 2 August 2009 | Link[/smaller]

Camden, north London, 1993. Hundreds of people were thronging the streets, streaming past rows of brightly painted buildings, buying food from market stalls by the canal and bartering with traders.

Sitting in a noisy pub, Louise Wener, the lead singer of a then little-known band called Sleeper, clutched a pint and waited excitedly for a journalist to arrive. "It was our first interview with NME," she recalls. "This guy walked in with a big jacket - I remember he was bald. He sat down at the table, took one look at me and then turned to speak to the other guys. I was the main singer and writing the songs, but he did not ask me a single question."

Wener, who is now a novelist, says that is what music journalism was like then, a "boys' club" - where it was acceptable for writers to ask her lurid and patronising questions and for photographers to leer as they told her to undo another button of her blouse. "It was creepy."

So it came as something of a surprise to learn last week that the magazine she once found so "hideous" - that staffed its offices and filled its pages mainly with men - had appointed Krissi Murison as its first female editor. "I almost fell off my chair," says Wener, laughing.

Wener started out 16 years ago, when the battles between Oasis and Blur were just commencing, Brit Pop and Girl Power had yet to peak, and Lily Allen, Lady Gaga and Little Boots were still at primary school.

But how much has changed in the intervening years? What is different about the offices of the record labels, promotion companies and music magazines? Have they really turned from places dominated by men to ones welcoming and supportive of women? And just how significant is the decision to establish Murison at the helm of one of music's leading publications?

One thing is clear - this is an issue that divides the women of the music industry, from publicists to booking agents to artists themselves. While some complain that the "boys' club" is still very much alive, others argue that the lack of women is more down to choice than discrimination. Having a child, they argue, while working long nights away from home is simply unsustainable for many women.

Murison herself is determined not to dwell on the issue of gender. "I got this job for many reasons, none of which had anything to do with what sex I am," she says. "While I can't speak for the experiences of women at NME or other music magazines in decades past, I can safely say that all my encounters have been nothing more than positive. My first introduction to the NME office was as an intern seven years ago and now I am coming back as editor - every single door that could ever have been opened to me has been."

Not so for others. They argue that women have to fight harder for every chance they get in the industry. Although women appear to succeed in some areas, such as PR, in others such as A&R they have hardly made a mark, they say.

Speech Debelle, the 26-year-old rapper from south London who is a surprise nomination for a Mercury award, describes her first impressions of the industry. "Sexism", she says, is too strong a word for what she has encountered. "But every person I have come across in this business in any position of power have been men - and even more, they have been white men." It has not come as a surprise: "That is the world we live in. The world is run by middle-class, middle-aged, Caucasian men. That is the way history laid things out."

Terri Hall, the managing director of the publicity company Hall or Nothing that represents Oasis, says she can "count on two hands" the women in prominent roles within record companies.

"I think possibly the hierarchy of record labels are quite dismissive of women and fear 'if I promote them, they will have a baby'. It is tragic we are even talking about this today."

Talking about how Murison's appointment has come as a surprise, she adds: "I don't know what it is about music. The editor of Sunday Times Culture is a woman, the editor of Guardian Weekend ..."

Some are trying hard to change the profile of the industry. Alison Wenham, chair and chief executive of the Association for Independent Music (AIM), looked at her own board four years ago and was disgusted to see it filled with "white, middle-class, male graduates". Today it has five women and as many non-white members.

"There is no doubt there is an issue," says Wenham. "If you look at the big companies, there is a chronic shortage of gender and ethnic diversity." She argues that women lack the confidence to stand up and realise they can make a contribution as valid and important as any man.

"There is a timidity that is quite understandable and valid when confronted by a sea of maleness. What we are dealing with is a type of tribalism. Men get comfortable with each other and outside business there is a whole social network that revolves around the things a lot of men enjoy - football, cricket, golf, fishing. Not many women do that. So it confirms this prejudice and feeds itself."

For others it is less the golf club and more the men's toilets. "There is an aspect of the music industry that is taking cocaine in toilet cubicles," says Kitty Empire, the Observer's pop critic. "That is where a lot of the socialising takes place. You would be surprised how many friendships and alliances form in men's toilets, and if you are a woman you probably won't be there. The male toilets are like the golf clubs of normal industry."

She says the work also involves lots of late nights and "long drives to see anonymous bands late at night who are third on at a pub in Corby". Women who have children find it difficult to take the time off and then come back, adds Empire, who says the mid-30s are a crucial time for those in the industry. She says younger women are able to ape men but older ones find it harder, which is why so many break away and set up their own publicity companies.

While there is clearly a long way to go before women truly break through the glass ceiling of the music world, many would argue things have come a long way. Some of the stories of the past seem outrageous by today's standards. Take the case of Alison Hussey, who has been a consultant in the industry for two decades. In the early 1990s, when she ran her own company, Hussey took one of her artists to meet "an extremely well known A&R man at a major label".

"He totally ignored me and instead directed the whole conversation to the musician, who was male," says Hussey. "Then, at the end, he turned around, looked at me and said, 'And what do you do, dear? Are you the backing vocalist?'" In another case a "well-known member of the music glitterati" made her sit in the centre of the room while he told her in "a misogynist way" what he wanted to do to her. "Telling me in effect that if I slept with him he would sign my artist," adds Hussey, who says she walked out in disgust. But she adds: "As far as I know, that sort of thing doesn't happen these days."

Hussey says change is coming - even if it is slow. She talks about a female networking event, called Girls Allowed, set up in 2003 for those in the music industry. It began with six women and now has 120 who meet four times a year. Others say they simply fight back against discrimination.

"Statistically it is male-dominated - but I don't believe the music industry is unique in this way," says Kanya King, founder of the MOBO awards. "Sometimes people don't take you seriously, sometimes they insist on seeing your boss. But if they don't think much you can surprise them."

For others the change in the industry has been dramatic. Orla Lee - who as general manager of Polydor Records at Universal has climbed the ladder to become one of the music industry's most powerful women - has a simple outlook: "If you work hard you will be rewarded. It is about the person, not the sex."

Alison Howe, the former producer of John Peel who now co-produces Later With Jools Holland, says she, too, has never felt held back. "I'd like to think it makes no difference whatsoever. I have not had any issues in that respect," she says. Then again, Howe admits that when she tried to think of the people running the major record labels - "I can hardly think of any women". Perhaps Murison, Lee, Hall, King, Wenham and Hussey are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Guest
fixed title

[edna]

Of course it is. Of course there is sexism.

And of course being a young and cute girl helps a lot when it comes to start in this business... you can meet all the musicians and business men as well. You make friends, you go to their parties, you even date them... or marry.

But it is very hard to go on after a certain point. If you' re a boss in your office it' s easier than still going to concerts and coming back home at 4 am. It' s hard cause it' s true, there' s lots of cocaine, alcohol, men' s toilets, sexism, smoking, football, truck driving, bowling, it doesn' t matter if you' re an A&R or a critic for NME or Rolling Stone, or if you have a music TV show.

This is a man' s world. Rock and roll is a man' s world.

But we ladies can also enjoy it...

[Viaene]

I think this is a good moment to declare that I encourage women on drums and/or guitars. Not only I believe they would do the job as good as men, but it would a greater pleasure to look at. More of this would be great for music industry.

[Ombre Vivante]

Have you also noticed this is also the same in the entire arts scene, except for pornography?

[edna]

Have you ever been on the road, touring with a band? It's the most boring thing on Earth when you do it more than twice...

[Carl]

Not sure if you've noticed this Edna, but most of the women I've dealt with in the music industry have a good chunk of confidence and even some empathy in many cases. I've seen men without swagger (good name for a band) succeed, or at least get a good job, but that's rarely the case with the chicks.

[edna]

You' re right there, women are very much confident in this scene... and there' s no such prima donna ego trips among them as there could be in other scenes (movies)

[blind-fitter]

Some thoughts on why the world of rock'n'roll is a boy's club.

Because of traditional gender-role stereotyping, rock'n'roll, and its seductive brethren "sex" and "drugs", are pursuits which males have far greater licence to engage in without risk of being critically-judged. Quite the reverse, in fact: they are perceived as indicators of status and "cool". You only have to look at the very distinct ways by which female rock/pop stars with drink, drug or behavioural issues are publicly-perceived and treated by the media, in comparison with their infinitely more numerous male counterparts, to recognise this truth.

For males, playing a guitar or shouting into a microphone are a foot in the door to a world of limitless excitement, attention, etc. as well as a way of boosting one's status, sex-appeal and ego exponentially. There are countless male role-models for the young male wannabe. Females do not necessarily have the door closed to them, should they choose to enter it, but the rules of engagement may be different, and they put themselves at much greater risk of harsh judgements; in many ways, they step into the firing line. It's reasonably acceptable to be an ugly, witless bloke in a band. Try being a "plain" girl in a band. Audiences can be cruel.

Incidentally, a guy might increase his chances of getting laid by becoming a musician, (but then again, it's no "shoo-in"), but if those are the lengths you have to go to... A girl who wants to get laid (though, traditionally, the social pressures upon the genders are not the same in this regard), may find far easier ways - ways requiring very little effort or cost at all, and which don't require 3 or 4 hours of rehearsal a week. But I digress.

Males tend to be more egotistical and dominant, and, as such, are perhaps more likely to labour under the delusion that they have something important going on that the world ought to hear. Women, on the whole, tending to be more modest and arguably having different priorities in life - a more realistic sense of proportion, if you like - might have a greater tendency to feel that the world dosn't owe them an audience for their beliefs or creative masterpieces. The world is full of boys who haven't grown up: the five-minute guitar wig-out is the lad-rock equivalent of the child's "Mummy, look what I made at school today" (awaits unconditional praise, expectantly).

There are still plenty of people out there who either reject the idea that women can rock, or accept it only begrudgingly: I refer to music consumers, but, if that is the case, it would follow that many "in the business" might share that view. It seems to be that "the true rock fan" will accept and respect a she-rocker, only if she has metaphorical bollocks.

So there a few thoughts on why the world of "bands" has tended to be a predominantly male one.

Another factor which predisposes males to a more obsessive interest in music, quite apart from us having a distorted view of life's priorities - how Mrs Fitter would prefer me not to spend hours on the internet researching artists, drawing up album wish-lists, concocting playlists for compilation CDs I will never get round to actually making for friends, etc., when there are doubtless more productive things I could be doing - is the (clinically-proven) fact that males tend to have more autistic traits, where their "special interests" are concerned, whatsoever they may be. That is, they are more likely to be concerned with honing their knowledge of the object of their fascination, right down to the tiniest minutiae. It starts, in childhood, with collecting cards- footballers, Pokemon, Dr. Who, you know the sort of thing, then evolves into some supposedly more adult-appropriate obsessive activity. Only a bloke would purchase a 6" thick tome called "The International Discography Of The New Wave",(Defoe and George) Link- which details every band & record release conceivably falling under the "new-wave" umbrella in the late 70s / early 80s, however obscure - and actually read it, from cover to cover. That's hard-line.

Whether words such as "autistic" or "anal-retentive" are appropriate to decribe such obsessive interest in one's preferred subjects is debatable, but it is, (I believe), indisputable that, for one reason or another, men are more predisposed to think and act in this way. Therefore, i would go on to suggest that while we all- male and female - have equal capacity to enjoy and appreciate music, we consume it in a different way. And it is the way that males consume music which makes them more likely to seek careers in music journalism, or at the very least, to engage in pointless pontification about it on the internet.

As far as "the business" is concerned, I would come back to the gender-role steretype thing. The music world, like any other business, is a ruthlessly competitive environment, a battle-ground for the self-absorbed and self-interested. Hence, as with most such worlds, it tends to be male-dominated.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Guest
Correct grammar

[Farin]

Only a bloke would purchase a 6" thick tome called "The International Discography Of The New Wave",(Defoe and George) Link- which details every band & record release conceivably falling under the "new-wave" umbrella in the late 70s / early 80s, however obscure - and actually read it, from cover to cover. That's hard-line.

that's soo true!

[blind-fitter]

And, he keeps it under his bed.

[The Seeker]

[Jenny]

Wow, b-f, that was really thought out and interesting. I also find it funny (not in a "ha ha" way) that male musicians can be ugly and/or old and still get women, but a female musician needs to look good/young no matter how talented she is. It's a shame.

[Lucky]

I agree with Jenny. Nice bit b-f, and a very astute analysis.

[Batman]

I think Missy Elliott is a good example of a female pop star who breaks the rules of sexism in the music industry. She's not especially attractive but in most of her songs she pretty much just uses men as sex objects. Kinda funny how the roles are reversed in her songs. Plus Timbaland always has excellent beats for her. I actually think she's pretty underrated in the scheme of modern pop.

[edna]

I agree with Be-ef, Jenny and Lucky.

[Ombre Vivante]

I'm getting that New Wave book, that's all there is to it

[Carl]

BF, those are some really interesting ideas. It got me thinking about how motherhood can put a damper on Rock stardom. Mick Jagger can make like Seattle Slew on the studfarm and it doesn't slow him down a bit, but it's a different story for women.

Jane Wiedlin is a great example of a woman who won at this game, as did all the Go-Gos. At one point, she tried the settle down and get married thing, and it wasn't right for her - she wrote a song about it called The Good Wife. Could it be that successful women in rock tend to be a little less maternal?

[pinkstones]

I don't think it's any more misogynistic than any other traditionally male-dominated field like medicine and law. While women have made great inroads in those two fields, there's still more work to be done. Same as music.

[edna]

Jane Wiedlin is a great example of a woman who won at this game, as did all the Go-Gos. At one point, she tried the settle down and get married thing, and it wasn't right for her - she wrote a song about it called The Good Wife. Could it be that successful women in rock tend to be a little less maternal?

Good point.

I guess some women can make it... but once again, you need a good liver...

I don't think it's any more misogynistic than any other traditionally male-dominated field like medicine and law. While women have made great inroads in those two fields, there's still more work to be done. Same as music.

Not really. Lawyers and doctors don' t have to be on the road, spending the night in the studio or onstage, parties, drink, dope... they usually don' t wear tattoos or piercings, drink bourbon from the bottle or pretend to "baby won' t let me rock and roll you..." I mean, they have other habits...

Music Business is twice as misogynistic than other business. You also need physical strenght.

[pinkstones]

[quote=Carl

Not really. Lawyers and doctors don' t have to be on the road, spending the night in the studio or onstage, parties, drink, dope... they usually don' t wear tattoos or piercings, drink bourbon from the bottle or pretend to "baby won' t let me rock and roll you..." I mean, they have other habits...

Music Business is twice as misogynistic than other business. You also need physical strenght.

The fact lawyers and doctors are not subject to the same pressures and temptations of life on the road doesn't mean the fields of law and medicine are not more skewed toward men, even now. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Just because a rock star has other means of diversion doesn't mean that other non-entertainment fields don't also suffer from a shortage of women in their ranks. How about politics? There aren't nearly enough women in Congress, in the upper echelons of the federal government.....it's still considered a man's world in DC.

[edna]

Post: Is the Music Business misogynistic?

[Ombre Vivante]

Yes... like any other business

[pinkstones]

I know what it said and I answered it in my initial post. I said it was no more misogynistic than any other tradtionally male-dominated field, and then I gave two examples of what I meant.

Then you said you felt the music business was more misogynistic because of the temptations that face rock stars on the road, and I said I disagreed - I didn't think it had anything to do with why it's misogynistic.

I don't believe there's any crossed wires here.

[edna]

Yes... like any other business

Obviously..

Then you said you felt the music business was more misogynistic because of the temptations that face rock stars on the road, and I said I disagreed - I didn't think it had anything to do with why it's misogynistic.

Not only the rock stars on the road... also the music business workers... A&R, publishers, critics, promo people, managers, sales managers, etc. They also live part-time in that world.

The music busines is misogynistic because rock and roll -and that' s what music business is based on...- is very misogystic.

Try it, pinkstones. Be a manager, a critic, a worker for a record company, a concerts promoter, a member of a music TV show crew, a promo-girl for the radio or an A&R's girlfriend. Then maybe we can talk about it.

[Levis]

Obviously..

Except modelling.