Mike Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A man apparently despondent about losing his job killed his wife and five children before turning the gun on himself, officials said Tuesday. The bodies of five children and two adults -- the children's mother and father -- were found Tuesday in a home in the Los Angeles neighborhood of Wilmington. Among the dead, authorities said, were an 8-year-old girl and two sets of twins -- 5-year-old girls and 2-year-old boys. Ervin Lupoe apparently called 911 and contacted a television station by fax before committing suicide, authorities said. "No words can describe this tragedy," said Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. "There's no way to comprehend this unspeakable act." Police were alerted by KABC-TV, who said the station had received a faxed letter and a call from an individual who was threatening suicide. Watch how the letter led authorities to the home » Responding officers found all seven bodies inside the home, said Capt. William Hayes. Nearly simultaneously with the KABC call, a man called 911 and reported coming home and finding his family dead, Hayes said. But, Deputy Police Chief Kenneth Garner said, the man told KABC he had killed them. A suicide note found at the scene "indicated a business dispute" between Lupoe and Kaiser Permanente West Los Angeles Medical Center, Hayes said. In the faxed note to KABC, the man said he was despondent over an employment situation, police said. Watch how the tragedy unfolded » Kaiser Permanente said Lupoe and his wife, Ana, were both former employees of the medical center. Both had been terminated, Hayes said, with Lupoe's termination coming last week. It appears there were grounds for the termination, and it did not come as a result of layoffs, he said. In Lupoe's suicide note, he offered a detailed account of his and his wife's work circumstances, calling the family's situation a "tragic story." He ended it by saying, "So after a horrendous ordeal my wife felt it better to end our lives and why leave our children in someone's else's hands." "There is no reason to believe this is anything other than a murder-suicide," Lt. John Romero said. "There is no current threat to the community, no active search for a suspect." The father and the three girls were found in one upstairs room of the home, the mother and twin boys in another, police said. Deputy Police Chief Kenneth Garner described the scene as one of the most grisly police have encountered. Watch emergency crews arrive at the home » Authorities did not release the names of the woman and children. "Unfortunately, this has become an all-too-common story in the last few months," Villaraigosa told reporters. He urged those who have lost jobs to take advantage of available assistance and resources, including mental health agencies. "Job centers, foreclosure counselors, and mental health professionals are ready to provide whatever services are necessary to get people back on their feet and to keep families afloat," the mayor said in a written statement. City Councilwoman Janice Hahn said, "No matter how desperate you are, no matter how frustrated you are, to think this was the only answer -- to take your whole family with you in death -- is just too much to understand." Kaiser Permanente said it is cooperating with the police investigation. "We are deeply saddened to hear of the deaths of the Lupoe family," the company said. "Our sympathies are with all their extended family and friends at this time. We are also providing resources and support to our employees who are affected by this tragedy." Copyright © 2009 Cable News Network Edited January 28, 2009 by Guest *updated story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sad. We recently had some layoffs where I work. I can't imagine being unemployed in this economy, but I don't think I'd ever be desperate enough to commit murder and/or kill myself. I'd be at the Wal-Mart greeting people if that's what it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamisammy29 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If I got laid off, I'd go out and kill all the Wal-Mart greeters I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 isn't being a Wal-Mart greeter the cause of suicide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Why such hatin' on the Wal-Mart greeters? Not saying it's my dream job, but sometimes you have to put dignity aside to put food on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I agree, I'm not often in Wal-Mart, but when I have, these folks are usually quite pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJonSurfer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would turn to a life of crime before I considered suicide...I think I would be good at it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Anyone who says crime doesn't pay, doesn't understand our political system AT ALL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 "... my wife felt it better to end our lives and why leave our children in someone's else's hands." Oh, I don't know, perhaps so they might have a chance to experience life .. ya think? Sounds as though pretty much any other "someone else's hands" would be better than the one's the kids were dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 No, no... this is a perfect example of the continuing attitudes for the progressive humanistic secular approach to life in general. Life has no meaning, no substance, it's just a biological reaction to senseless reproduction of a simple organic substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 "simple organic substance" ... sounds like a politician... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foolonthehill Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 No, no... this is a perfect example of the continuing attitudes for the progressive humanistic secular approach to life in general. Life has no meaning, no substance, it's just a biological reaction to senseless reproduction of a simple organic substance. I'm an atheist. I'm a nihilist. I don't support murder. I completely agree with your second sentence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm an atheist. I'm a nihilist. I don't support murder. I completely agree with your second sentence though. I am confused, Fool on the hill. You say you are a nihilist - one with total disregard for legal concepts or institutions, an anarchist - how then are you able to reject the concept of murder, as it is a rule of law? To the nihilist, there is life and there is non-life; attachments therein are meaningless. Perhaps what you oppose is murder as it relates to yourself. Which is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Nihilists and Buddhists have a fair bit in common , it seems . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 No, no... this is a perfect example of the continuing attitudes for the progressive humanistic secular approach to life in general. Life has no meaning, no substance, it's just a biological reaction to senseless reproduction of a simple organic substance. Because we all know it is much better to have faith in a blind, idiot God who made humans into automatons that carry out its will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Because we all know it is much better to have faith in a blind, idiot God who made humans into automatons that carry out its will Those "automatons" sound more like the plants and animals that, though having life force, are limited creatively. Creative thought-enabled people were necessary so God can have continuously close relations. Problem is, a lot of people misunderstood and thought the words were, "cantankerously closed religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 No. Humans are God's automatons and act according to how they were created. The notion of an all-powerful, all-knowing God that created all of this nullifies the idea that humans have free will. Only the creator's will exists because being an all-knowing entity outside the boundaries/dimensions of space-time means that God knows every decision the creations will make prior to their action; thus making the judgment of such actions ridiculous (as in a judge knowing the verdict before the crime is committed). Try this: can you say and/or do anything that is not known to God? Even then, God can only do what is right and what is good; God can never do evil and wrong because it is not in its nature to do so. Since God knows the outcome of every decision before the decision is made and God always chooses the right and the good, then how is this "free will"? It's not free will. It's quite predictable in a general sense. If God doesn't have free will, how can God give it to the creations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foolonthehill Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am confused, Fool on the hill. You say you are a nihilist - one with total disregard for legal concepts or institutions, an anarchist - how then are you able to reject the concept of murder, as it is a rule of law? To the nihilist, there is life and there is non-life; attachments therein are meaningless. Perhaps what you oppose is murder as it relates to yourself. Which is understandable. I said I was a nihilist, not an anarchist, but it would be irrelevant if I was an anarchist. In this case, I'm not concerned with murder as the breaking of a law so much as something which goes against my morals. Simply because I'm not religious does not mean that I have no morals; it simply means I've found them myself rather than reading them out of a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 No. Humans are God's automatons and act according to how they were created. The notion of an all-powerful, all-knowing God that created all of this nullifies the idea that humans have free will. Only the creator's will exists because being an all-knowing entity outside the boundaries/dimensions of space-time means that God knows every decision the creations will make prior to their action; thus making the judgment of such actions ridiculous (as in a judge knowing the verdict before the crime is committed). Try this: can you say and/or do anything that is not known to God? Even then, God can only do what is right and what is good; God can never do evil and wrong because it is not in its nature to do so. Since God knows the outcome of every decision before the decision is made and God always chooses the right and the good, then how is this "free will"? It's not free will. It's quite predictable in a general sense. If God doesn't have free will, how can God give it to the creations? I don't know about all that, BA. I mean we DO have the Creator/Free Will Creation model in our own existence and it seems to work OK - every time out. I (with a little help from my mate ) "created" 3 human beings. They all have part of me inside them permanently and yet I cannot dictate to them how to think, act or react. I can give training, advice, care-filled nuturing and sincere love, but there are no guarantees they will follow my will for their lives (nor would I really want them to, in the strictest sense, lest they become automatons.) Seems to me that if idiot me can do that, then an omnipotent God, transcending time and space could have figured out how to pull off the free will aspect in an original creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ah, but you do not have the power of foreknowledge. You don't know every decision your creations will make and you can judge accordingly. You CAN do that. God cannot. God is also the one who set everything in motion and knows the outcome... which means every decision you will make has already been planned. Hence, humans (and everything else) are God's automatons. It's no big deal, though. God doesn't have what we would refer to as "free will" either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levis Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 There is no such thing as free will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel2Velvet Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 There is no such thing as free will That's what MiamiSammy would have you believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 There is no such thing as free will What a silly thing to say - sez I , freely and spontaneously ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 ever heard of the Libet experiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Freely, no . Dorks doing experiments in this field are the same as magicians , anyway - spontaneously said ... No , you are right . Yes , you are wrong . Whatever , dude . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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