Guns and the 2nd Ammendment

[The Seeker]

It's not to kill. It's to "prevent" killing.

I would not want to kill, unless.. UNLESS it was a matter my life, (or life of a loved one or defenseless human) or the perpetrators.

If there was NO GUNS ANYWHERE FOR ANYONE, I'd be ok with that. But... BUT, as long as a desperate, deranged individual can/will possess one with the ability/intent to harm another, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to ACT!

Well... how do I know YOU're not a desperate, deranged individual with a gun? How do I know for sure that one day, something, some things combined, won't make YOU go out and do the very things you want to prevent? You're only human.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Guest
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[The Seeker]

Seeker, hopefully, in your lifetime you'll not see full blown nuclear war.

But I guarantee that if you do;

You'll wish you had a firearm to protect yourself and your beloved family from the eminent chaos surely to ensue that brother bluesboy spoke of earlier.

As I said, I see your point, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, or think it applies to me. I wouldn't even trust myself with a gun... and I hope none of us will have to put ourselves to the test

[MuzikTyme]

Well... how do I know YOU're not a desperate, deranged individual with a gun? How do I know for sure that one day, something, some things combined, won't make YOU go out and do the very things you want to prevent? You're only human.

Seeker, I could kill someone with a frickin' pencil.

So, should pencils be outlawed?

[The Seeker]

A magic trick?

Pencils are a completely different thing! They're not there to kill, normal people don't think of killing when they see them, and you don't kill someone as easily with a pencil as with a gun.

Same with knives... they're really useful.

[Mike]

Well... how do I know YOU're not a desperate, deranged individual with a gun? How do I know for sure that one day, something, some things combined, won't make YOU go out and do the very things you want to prevent? You're only human.

True. You don't. But let's take an example of a story a month ago. Canada Bus Stabbing

If someone had been on that bus and had a loaded gun, they could have possibly stopped this maniac.

He only had a knife.

So even if, as you say, a maniac among us breaks loose, they don't need a gun to kill. But it would be easier to stop them with one. No?

[MuzikTyme]

If someone had been on that bus and had a loaded gun, they could have possibly stopped this maniac.

If only some innocent passengers had a gun aboard the planes during the pandemonium of 9/11;

The Twin Towers would most likely still be standing.

[Shawna]

If someone had been on that bus and had a loaded gun, they could have possibly stopped this maniac.

I submit to you, with all due respect, that had the maniac had a gun, there would have been several innocent lives lost as opposed to one.

Seems like I remember having read something a while back where there was a study done and folks who owned guns for self protection rarely had the time to use them for that purpose when a robber/burglar/rapist, etc. attacked them in their home. They were so unprepared mentally for an attack that by the time they realized what was happening their gun was too far away to reach and therefore did no good whatsoever.

I do fully agree, however, that responsible individuals with stable mental health and micro-background checks should be allowed to have guns, so long as they are used responsibly. I think that's the working word here.

[MuzikTyme]

It's the key word and you're right, Shawna.

[The Seeker]

Who deleted my post and why?

[MuzikTyme]

Check your private messages

[Mike]

I'm not so sure I agree about that. What stopped him from bringing a gun aboard?

I do fully agree, however, that responsible individuals with stable mental health and micro-background checks should be allowed to have guns, so long as they are used responsibly. I think that's the working word here.

Yes, I agree with background checks. Mental confirmation.

but I can show you twice as many news reports about people accidentally shooting their children/parents/friends/complete strangers.

I haven't read that. Show me reports of legal gun owners shooting their kids and friends. I know many many people who have had no problems or accidents with their guns.

[Lea]

I agree with Shawna. If you want to own a gun, be responsible about it.

and like I said in the other post:

I think to most of the people here guns are mostly considered as a hobby. Kind of like archery, fencing, knife throwing or axe throwing. Yes guns are more lethal but all are weapons.

I personally don't think most people could kill with a gun or any other weapon. They say they could but over all, if faced with it could you really?

I don't believe anyone has the right to take a life and what a thing to have to live with for the rest of your life if you were in a position to have to kill.

Killing someone is what I think would drive me crazy. I could protect the life of my child or even someone else's but I'm not so sure what my life would be after.

[The Seeker]

I haven't read that. Show me reports of legal gun owners shooting their kids and friends. I know many many people who have had no problems or accidents with their guns.

Go to news.google.com, type in 'accidentally shot'

I don't believe anyone has the right to take a life and what a thing to have to live with for the rest of your life if you were in a position to have to kill.

Killing someone is what I think would drive me crazy. I could protect the life of my child or even someone else's but I'm not so sure what my life would be after.

Exactly.

[Shawna]

I'm not so sure I agree about that. What stopped him from bringing a gun aboard?

perhaps he couldn't afford one.

[The Seeker]

That said, sorry about hijacking the thread, I'll be quiet now. Sorry to those who really only wanted to discuss guns as such, I don't mean to stop you from doing so. Thanks for the separate thread too.

[Mike]

That said, sorry about hijacking the thread, I'll be quiet now. Sorry to those who really only wanted to discuss guns as such, I don't mean to stop you from doing so. Thanks for the separate thread too.

No, don't feel bad. I respect your opinions.

Feel free to express them!!

[Lea]

Glad you agree Fin but I have to say, if someone is 'accidentally shot' whoever was on the other end of the gun had no business having one in the first place.

I had also said in another post that people that get 'accidentally shot' in IMHO were not raised with the proper gun handling training. Properly just the opposite and that is why the 'accident' happened in the first place.

If you remove the fascination of guns by being familiar with them it makes the gun somewhat less 'accident prone' if you get my meaning. But then that's just my opinion

[The Seeker]

Um, well, it's quite ironic that you say this ten minutes after my post was deleted, but I'm discussing this in a PT already so no worries.

And no, really... I know some of you are genuinely interested in simply discussing different types of guns, and I really hope I didn't put a stop to that by helping lead this thread in such a sensitive direction.

[Mike]

There are so many interesting ways to die in America, that we felt it was just wrong to limit it to the most frequent causes, which are all boring diseases and infections and stuff. (Except in Alaska, where suicide generally makes it into the top ten.) You want to hear about the terrible calamities, the tragic consequences of an error in judgment or a general lack of coordination. Do we ever disappoint?

1. CAUSES OF DEATH 10 - 8

10. Machinery

Deaths per year: 350

We can thank the farmers of America for the inclusion of this particular misfortune as a cause of death. Between corn-huskers and wheat-threshers, is it a wonder? The reason it is last on the list is that there just aren't enough people in farming these days. Ironically, they have all been replaced by machines. Hmm accident, or deliberate act by wanton machinery? We may never know.

9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures

Deaths per year: 500

While we are incredibly insensitive people, we did not coin the term "medical misadventure"- the National Safety Council did. How is death by surgeon a "misadventure?" While we're not sure, we suspect that this number refers to elective surgeries that people undertake, such as liposuction. After all, the removal of a brain tumor is not usually considered to be an "adventure."

8. Poisoning by gases

Deaths per year: 700

There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning In this category, you mostly have deaths by carbon monoxide poisoning due to faulty operation of a heating or cooking appliance, or a standing automobile. We assume, however, that the noxious gasses emitted by Uncle Albert qualify too.

2. CAUSES OF DEATH 7 - 5

7. Firearms

Deaths per year: 1,500

We can thank our second amendment rights for all 1500 of these deaths; call it the "right to die" amendment. You probably don't want to know how many countries in the world do not even have "accidental death by firearms" on their top ten, or their top twenty. Suffice it to say that it's most of them. Of the 1500, you're looking at about 75% young males between the age of 14 and 25 (and getting younger every year), who unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else. For more information on the place of guns in society, click over to our pros and cons section.

6. Suffocation

Deaths per year: 3,300

Call this one the "Heimlich" section, as these deaths mostly resulted from blockages of the respiratory system by food or other objects.

5. Fires and burns

Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?

3. CAUSES OF DEATH 4 - 2

4. Drowning

Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.

3. Poisoning by solids and liquids

Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.

2. Falls

Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.

4. THE MOST COMMON CAUSE OF ACCIDENTAL DEATH

1. Motor vehicle crashes

Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?

source

[MuzikTyme]

Yes, cars should be outlawed. One driven by a drunk driver killed my entire family!

And he didn't even own a firearm!

[Shawna]

hmmmm... I would say then, that since the argument about firearms is they're okay to be owned if done so responsibly, then the argument about cars should be the same. No?

[Lea]

Yes

[MuzikTyme]

Quite right, Ms. Shawna.

Quite right.

[MarcM]

marcus, I am smitten with my Sig Sauer P220 Elite. It is a pleasure to shoot right out of the box. The trigger has been worked on by the factory (part of what makes it "Elite") AS WELL AS THE BEVERTAIL ON THE FRAME. i HAD CARRIED A h&k usp 45 FOR 6 YEARS PRIOR TO THE sIG BEING AUTHORIZED. tHE h&k WAS NICE, BUT NOT AS SMOOTH AS THE sIG AND A LITTLE BIG IN THE GRIP. tHE h&k HAS A 12 ROUND MAGAZINE WHERE THE sIG HAS A 8 ROUND MAG.

mIKEY, i HAVE HEARD GOOD THINGS AND BAD THINGS ABOUT tAURUS, SO BE CAREFUL. iF i WAS GETTING A 9MM, i WOULD PROBABLY GO FOR A sIG p226. tHEY ARE EXPENSIVE THOUGH, SO IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY, i WOULD LOOK AT THE bERETTA 92f, tHE h&k usp 9MM OR p2000, OR EVEN gLOCK. iF i COULD FIND A RETIRED gERMAN POLICE sIG p6. tHEY ARE USUALLY WELL CARED FOR, DONT HAVE TOO MANY ROUNDS THROUGH THEM AND ARE CHEAP!

[TheLizard]

Ok, yes, let's just let the thugs and hoods have them and when they come to blow you away, you can karate chop the bullet just before it enters your forehead. Brilliant!

I'm not sure you understood my point. This isn't just some personal thing against YOU having a gun. I don't want ANYONE to have a gun. When the 2nd amendment was made, the best gun was the musket, and we were a subsistence country. Now that technology has vastly improved and we're a post-industrial society, guns are not necessary and are nothing but a danger.