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wuxtry

Pop Go–eth Ye Weasel!

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http://www.bardsguild.com/filk/4and20virgins.htm

This link, however, is to a song that has been credited to Robert Burns, and performed live by Jim Croce at his last concert. (It's just so full of images, said he.) :afro:

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Ring around the rosie

A pocketful of posies

Ashes! Ashes!

We all fall down.

A bit morbid.

You see, over here we say

"Ring, a ring of roses,

A pocket full of posies,

Atishoo! Atishoo!

We all fall down"

The "ring of roses" refers to the rosaceous skin-rash, which was the first symptom of illness. I'm not sure of the significance of posies, but then sufferers would develop flu-like symptoms "Atishoo! Atishoo!", prior to popping their clogs. ("We all fall down")

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when I tried to google for a possible meaning of the posies line, I stumbled across a snopes article about the rhyme...

EDIT: okay, so maybe I DO need to read every post carefully before engaging into the conversation :/

;)

Edited by Guest

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http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

Snopes says "Ring Around The Rosie" ISN'T about The Black Death/Bubonic Plague. :beatnik:

I'm not at all convinced by their reasoning . At the time of Chaucer /The Black Death, and both earlier and later , common stories and other information were rarely recorded in books except that which were considered to be of note or of some importance ( meaning a paying patron ) due to the cost and effort involved . A children's rhyme could very likely be omitted or ignored , yet I can easily imagine children making a game or play of such a serious event of what they saw happening around them - eventhough it likely orphaned many of them , since disease or sickness was a constant companion for them . That's part of the charm of children , though it may not have interested adults .

In fact ," childhood" and attention toward it , as we know it in a modern sense , doesn't really begin to take any form until the Victorian Era . Prior to that , it was either ignored or exploited in some form of servitude as soon as possible . Their thoughts, feelings, or words rarely , if ever , appear . Part of what made Dickens a hit was the revolutionary idea of considering what children may think .

I think it highly likely that children could concoct a rhyme that passes through hundreds of years in order to make sense of what they saw or feared around them - and for it to be ignored as nonsense by adults ( responsible for recording literature ) for a long period of time , as well as the variations that appeared , since we have a thread going that clearly shows how people hear things differently and may even modify a song over time , sometimes deliberately .

Remember that Homer's Iliad must have survived a long period of time in a mostly oral tradition until it was recorded . Is it an accurate retelling of a real conflict or mostly fantasy , or a twisted version of both ?!

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You see, over here we say

"Ring, a ring of roses,

A pocket full of posies,

Atishoo! Atishoo!

We all fall down"

The "ring of roses" refers to the rosaceous skin-rash, which was the first symptom of illness. I'm not sure of the significance of posies, but then sufferers would develop flu-like symptoms "Atishoo! Atishoo!", prior to popping their clogs. ("We all fall down")

Since the Plague was considered to be carried by foul air , people carried flowers or nosegays ( think today of items such as oranges studded with cloves , or a small bouquet which also have their origins in this belief ) which they believed would keep them safe. As a kid in Canada , we also mimicked the sneezing word rather than saying ashes - 'a-choo ' . A bride carries a bouquet not only to look pretty and as a symbol of fertility , but to keep herself 'safe' in a large gathering . Also the corsage for the groom .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosegay

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