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AC/DC and sexism


Rock4Life

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What do you think, girls and women (guys, you can have your say, too):

Do you think some of AC/DC's songs (with Brian Johnson) like "What Do You Do For Money Honey" are sexist? Can they be compared to (some) modern rap?

I'm asking because a reviewer for "The Rolling Stone" thought they were. Don't get offended, anyone. I'm a die-hard fan.

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Not at all. The song references either a hooker or a gold digger. Songs like that barely make a sexist reference:

Sexism is a belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other and can also refer to a hatred or distrust towards either sex as a whole or creating stereotypes of masculinity for men or femininity for women.[1]. It is also called male and female chauvinism.

The stereotype would only be if the song had a feeling of referencing women as a whole. In this case, there is a feeling of referencing one woman or women who behave in this manner. There is no global feeling of "women are money whores". In all honesty, unless a song says "all women...", I wouldn't be offended by it :)

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The stereotype would only be if the song had a feeling of referencing women as a whole. In this case, there is a feeling of referencing one woman or women who behave in this manner. There is no global feeling of "women are money whores". In all honesty, unless a song says "all women...", I wouldn't be offended by it :)

I understand your meaning, but I'm not sure I'd agree. In this case, it's impossible to tell, based solely on the song's title, which is not sexist per se. It depends, however. If the title were rephrased "Are You A Whore, Honey?" I'd want to know, "Why are you asking that question?". If the lyric, even though it is directed at one woman only, is predicated upon the not-at-all uncommon notion that a woman who is sexually active, assertive, promiscuous or provocatively dressed can be presumed a whore, then it would indeed be sexist (and arguably misogynist) on the "creating stereotypes of masculinity for men or femininity for women" card. If the title were rephrased as "Can I have sex with you gratis, or will I have to pay you for it?", I'd say that, as chat-up lines go, that might be regarded as "sexist" in its assumptions about women in general, not just the one in question. Or else, it's just refreshingly honest about the way we human beings behave as sexual animals.

Also, doesn't there come a point that cumulative accusations of whoredom, albeit they may be addressed at individual women can be regarded as evidence that, in fact, the person responsible possesses a very negative and misogynist perception of womankind, ("a hatred or distrust towards either sex as a whole"), which might be termed "sexist"?

For the record, though, I don't perceive AC/DC as particularly sexist, whatever their reputation. Old skool chauvinism combined with a lot of songs celebrating the sexual act, but neither malicious nor pernicious. They're not disseminating hate or disrespect, and I don't have any reason to believe they regard women as inferior beings. If it is the case that "Fat Is A Feminist Issue", could it not be argued that in its celebration of the erotic delights of the more voluptuous female (as preferable to the stick-thin waif look) "Whole Lotta Rosie" is ultimately a feminist anthem? :shades:

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In my humble opinion, if something doesn't touch a nerve, it won't seem offensive until something makes it personal. Whether the intention was to be sexist against women or not, most other songs can be interpreted in a number of equally un-PC ways.

The cumulative assumption based on the entirety of the lyrics lends nothing towards his accusation of all women being sexual deviants/whores/gold diggers. "What Do You Do For Money Honey", well what does she do for money? He is asking the question about someone he sees (potentially doesn't know), he has no preconception about her until he looks at her and wonders. Or he has observed her, perhaps, questionable behaviour from a distance. If the cap fits, wear it. She is doing something which makes him question her.

I feel there is no reason to surmise his thoughts on women based on the song title or the lyrics. Misogyny is a mindset/opinion, but the tone of the lyrics lacks evidence suggesting a disposition of chauvinism or hate of women (perhaps if sung by someone else, it would seem different and take on their personal feeling).

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Here are the lyrics in discussion:

You're workin in bars, ridin in cars

Never gonna give it for free

Your apartment with a view

On the finest avenue

Lookin at your beat on the street

You're always pushin, shovin

Satisfied with nothing

You b***h you must be gettin old

So stop your love on the road

All your diggin for gold

You make me wonder

Yes I wonder

I wonder

Honey, what do you do for money

Honey, what do you do for money

How do ya get your kicks?

You're ridin on the take and you're always on the make

Squeezin all the blood out of men

They're standin in a queue just to spend the night wth you

It's business as usual again

You're always grabbin, stabbin

Tryin to get it back but girl you must be gettin slow

So stop your love on the road

All your diggin for gold

You make me wonder

Yes I wonder

Yes I wonder

Honey, what do you do for money

Honey, what do you do for money

What do you do for money honey?

How do you get your kicks?

What do you do for money honey?

How do you get your licks?

What you gonna do?

Aw what you gonna do?

I don't see these lyrics as sexist, or offensive, myself, but offensive is in the eye (or in this case) ear of the beholder

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In my humble opinion, if something doesn't touch a nerve, it won't seem offensive until something makes it personal. Whether the intention was to be sexist against women or not, most other songs can be interpreted in a number of equally un-PC ways.

The cumulative assumption based on the entirety of the lyrics lends nothing towards his accusation of all women being sexual deviants/whores/gold diggers. "What Do You Do For Money Honey", well what does she do for money? He is asking the question about someone he sees (potentially doesn't know), he has no preconception about her until he looks at her and wonders. Or he has observed her, perhaps, questionable behaviour from a distance. If the cap fits, wear it. She is doing something which makes him question her.

I feel there is no reason to surmise his thoughts on women based on the song title or the lyrics. Misogyny is a mindset/opinion, but the tone of the lyrics lacks evidence suggesting a disposition of chauvinism or hate of women (perhaps if sung by someone else, it would seem different and take on their personal feeling).

Did I just say that? :stars:

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Did I just say that? :stars:

You certainly did. ;) And now that I've seen the lyrics, I would agree that they are neither explicitly nor implicitly sexist. As you pointed out, they are quite clearly questioning / commenting upon the lifestyle of a specific individual.

Also, doesn't there come a point that cumulative accusations of whoredom, albeit they may be addressed at individual women can be regarded as evidence that, in fact, the person responsible possesses a very negative and misogynist perception of womankind, ("a hatred or distrust towards either sex as a whole"), which might be termed "sexist"?

What I meant when I said that, was: if an individual writer/artist repeatedly uses his lyrics as a platform for judgement upon female conduct, repeatedly accuses different individuals (women) of whoredom or such-like, one inevitably starts to form the impression that the person concerned harbours a distorted and prejudiced view of womankind. A specific track might not be "sexist" per se, but seen in the context of the artist's body of work, it might be perceived differently. Yeah?

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I'm glad I started this thread. You all have wonderful things to say! Awesome, blind-fitter!

With the lyrics and definition in front of me, I can see that the song isn't sexist . . . It's another song about a woman, which AC/DC has done plenty of. This woman (for once) just isn't the object of the man's affections and is actually bugging him with her actions.

What about all those songs about doin' it with various women? They seem to be about the animal-like feelings and wants usually kept out of modern, respectable society. That's how I see them, anyway. Maybe a man sees it differently? Or an older person?

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The thing is, with AC DC, in many respects they represent "old-fashioned values" from days before political correctness crashed the party. They are unashamedly unreconstructed males: with the appetites of men, but the sense of humour of juveniles. (Stick with me, this is intended as praise rather than criticism.) At the same time, they are not unintelligent people and they do not give the impression of being motivated by any intention of debasing or degrading women. On the contrary, their rutting blues/heavy rock, whilst adopting a very male perspective, seems to intuitively understand the common ground between the sexes, when it comes to the baser matters of lust and the glorious, dirty delirium of sex.

By way of analogy: there are "sexist comedians" and there are "misogynist comedians". Many comedians are branded "sexist" because they comment upon or satirise traditional gender roles, often using crude language to convey an affectionate pastiche of the way people actually live and behave in our communities. This upsets the middle classes, who maybe would rather not have to hear what the common people's lives are like in such brazen terms. Then you get "misogynist comedians" whose hostility becomes apparent over time, as they relentlessly harp on about women and the way they conduct themselves, but without any balances, such as respect, affection or self-deprecation.

And I suppose what I'm saying there is: AC DC don't mean anyone any harm; their "art" is permeated by a sense of humourous and affectionate pastiche (of social mores), rather than any undercurrent of misogyny. They have an uncanny instinct for tapping into the common vibe that unites ordinary guys and gals to want to get down and get dirty. They're just honest about the way it is.

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I think the same can be applied to ZZTop. They have many songs about sex. Many of their videos are filled with women prancing around in skimpy clothes. I don't feel they are misogynist, though. Horny, maybe, but what's wrong with that? As long as they are not singing about hitting or degrading women, calling all women whores or worthless or stuff like that, I am not offended. The women in the videos, while objectified, are shown as strong and make fools of men who act like jerks towards women.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think it is more of a morale question than one of sexism although sexism does fall under that category.Any person man or woman who would subject themselves to listen to such a song and be affected enough by it to act as the narrator is a sexist. Most of the lyrics are about taking advantage of women, most of whom are demoralized anyway, but that does not make fornication alright, does it. But if you take a look at all of these newer rap songs, these kids are listening to an adult who says it is o.k. to think that every woman you meet in da' club or at a bar is a hooker and are meant for free sex plus the price of drinks.

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