Farin Posted February 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 MODERN TALKING oh. my. god. and YOU have the nerve to criticize today's music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daslied Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 John Cage is the most overrated "composer" in history. He, along with Marcel Duchamp and everyone involved with Fluxus, should've been thrown in a river. The whole philosophy of "Gee, I can't do anything new, so I'll do something completely stupid and abstract while surrounding myself with people who are afraid to admit it's stupid and abstract so they'll tell me what a genius I am" in art and music in the middle of the 20th century is why people who suck think they're great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I've never been a fan of musique concrete myself. Call me closeminded, but I personally believe that for art to be good, it has to mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Baloni Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 John Cage is the most overrated "composer" in history. He, along with Marcel Duchamp and everyone involved with Fluxus, should've been thrown in a river. The whole philosophy of "Gee, I can't do anything new, so I'll do something completely stupid and abstract while surrounding myself with people who are afraid to admit it's stupid and abstract so they'll tell me what a genius I am" in art and music in the middle of the 20th century is why people who suck think they're great. Dude, you really hit the nail on the head there. Ever see that movie they made? Called "Sound" I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 John Cage is the most overrated "composer" in history. He, along with Marcel Duchamp and everyone involved with Fluxus, should've been thrown in a river. The whole philosophy of "Gee, I can't do anything new, so I'll do something completely stupid and abstract while surrounding myself with people who are afraid to admit it's stupid and abstract so they'll tell me what a genius I am" in art and music in the middle of the 20th century is why people who suck think they're great. That is your "philosophy," guy. Who said those who appreciate such art are "afraid" to admit what's trash is trash? You? lol @ that. Why should anyone be "afraid" to call a spade "a spade"? That's absolutely silly and preposterous (imbecilic, at worst) to even fathom in this free society. It's not as if we're in Fascist Germany or Italy (where there was officially banned art). Marcel Duchamp and John Cage are the embodiment of artistic genius who added meaning to what constitutes art. I can't argue for that fact. I can only state it as such. You wanna go on thinking they're not, you're more than free to do so, but don't muck up everyone else's thought process with your "philosophy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Baloni Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Marcel Duchamp and John Cage are the embodiment of artistic genius Looks like you fall into the "afraid to admit it's stupid" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Mr Almonds: I'm with you on some of the points you make. 1) The Killers are an overrated, overhyped and substandard band. Since they claimed to be influenced by several (much better) bands of whom I am quite fond, The Smiths and Pulp entre autres, there are inevitably a few tracks on their debut album I find to be reasonably okay, the rest are just no big deal. The second album is as pants as I expected it to be, the moment I heard of their plan to make a more "American Rock" (ie. broody and unshaven) album that would attempt to reconcile the twin inspirations of Depeche Mode and Bruce Springsteen (or somesuch guff). Gad, I wish people could be more discerning and sort out their wheat from the flatulent chaff. 2) I applaud your stance on "art" (even though I've already forgotten what it was), being vaguely interested in Dada myself. 3) I, too, bemoan the apparent paucity of what might be termed "protest music" in the world of modern pop and rock. Where we begin our divergence, alas, is your citation of Culture Club's "War" as an examplar of how much better protest music was back then, rather than (as I might) as "the most moronic piffle ever committed to vinyl". I fear this strains the credibility of your "pro-80s" stance beyond breaking point. "War, war is stupid, and people are stupid, and love means nothing in some strange quarters"...it makes even "Imagine" appear almost intellectual. The 80s- pardon me, if I'm wrong, but I think you'll find this is fact- was the diabolical decade of pop's cultural nadir. It's never a good sign for a decade when it peaks in its first year. So, the STARS were bigger and more charismatic back then, were they? So what? In what way did this serve the broader good of music? What was the positive pop-cultural impact of BIG, CHARISMATIC performers like Madonna and Michael? Lots of Mini-Maddies and Jacko-wannabees polluting the airwaves with their inane nonsense? We're still reaping their crap-harvest today. However, on the plus side, the 80s were also the "incubation period" for indie/alternative rock music, underground hip-hop and techno. This occurred precisely because the "mainstream" offered only a noxious stew of unremittingly lamentable offal, (of which you mystifyingly appear to be a fan?). The development of alternative musics, taking place in the shadows, away from the over-bright spotlight of gaudy 80's slop-music, is also the reason why rock/pop music has only improved immeasurably since the passing of your "Golden Age", the emetic 80s. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The reason I listen to so much music from this decade is that I prefer "good music" to "important music." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hehe. Errata: When I said "American Idiot" is no Culture Club "War," I meant that in spite of it being a crappy top 40 song, it is eons better than Culture Club's "War" I wrote the whole thing haphazardly, so the sentence structure leaves a lot to be desired. In other news: Looks like you fall into the "afraid to admit it's stupid" category. Looks like tony fails to comprehend I do have a wide range of taste, which most definitely includes the bona fide avant-garde right down to the craptastic German schlager. Looks like tony fails, again, to understand that there is no fear in stating facts and opinions based on facts; that we still are afforded the freedom of expression (although the latest house vote is scary and one should be afraid of our eroding rights). Looks like tony subscribes to the failed "philosophy" that if he doesn't like something, then those who do are "afraid" and "too stupid" to think the way he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The 80s- pardon me, if I'm wrong, but I think you'll find this is fact- was the diabolical decade of pop's cultural nadir. It's never a good sign for a decade when it peaks in its first year. So, the STARS were bigger and more charismatic back then, were they? So what? In what way did this serve the broader good of music? What was the positive pop-cultural impact of BIG, CHARISMATIC performers like Madonna and Michael? Lots of Mini-Maddies and Jacko-wannabees polluting the airwaves with their inane nonsense? We're still reaping their crap-harvest today. What made them important and impacting was also a sign of worse things to come. We can't have Off The Wall and Madonna without seeing the radio-active after-effects decades later. 20 years later and we're in the midst of a musical nuclear winter due to them. Another problem with music, and a little bit related to what Mr. Albini wrote, is that everything is a niche crowd - everything. So, while a band could've been a huge breakthrough hit with massive audiences (i.e., "cross-over"), in this era, everything has been sub-genreised to death. Perhaps a hit single nowadays may not be worth as much as a hit single back in the day. Since everything is a small-group following, it'll only sell to those specific groups, yet the advertising campaign for the single still costs a whole lotta big money since there are more mediums to advertise in (e.g., Internet, eMpTyV, clearchannel radio stations, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-fitter Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hehe. Errata: When I said "American Idiot" is no Culture Club "War," I meant that in spite of it being a crappy top 40 song, it is eons better than Culture Club's "War" I wrote the whole thing haphazardly, so the sentence structure leaves a lot to be desired. Thank heavens for that. Do try to make yourself clearer in future; I nearly had one my "funny turns". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farin Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Looks like tony fails to comprehend I do have a wide range of taste, which most definitely includes the bona fide avant-garde right down to the craptastic German schlager. first you admit to like Moder Talking and now Schlager too? now it's official: anything you have to say about (in your opinion) good and bad music doesn't affect me anymore PS seems like Bitter Almonds likes to use foreign phrases ad nauseam... I don't want to allege though that he does it to intimidate others, but because of his love for the first lingua franca PPS "Errata" is plural, it's singular is "Erratum" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seeker Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 As Batman said, he also likes to drop names, but of course that's just because he knows what's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Baloni Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Looks like tony subscribes to the failed "philosophy" that if he doesn't like something, then those who do are "afraid" and "too stupid" to think the way he does. So what was that you were saying about the Killers again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I stated they suck, but I didn't say people who like them are too stupid or too afraid to admit they suck. I think it's fine and dandy to like music that sucks. It would be pretty hard to find a music listener and/or fanatic who doesn't like music that's subpar. All you need to read are messageboards that cater to record collectors to see just how much forgotten gold and trash there is out there Hey, Farin, I got that word off the newspaper, man, but thank you for the correction because I will make that distinction from now on. It's a good thing I didn't major in English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edna Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I remember Rachel said something when she was here, she said that it shouldn´t be "Forums" but "Fora"... (Was it Rachel, by the way? ) I didn´t study Latin but my mother always makes that kind of remarks to me... I love these discussions... I learn a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 It reminds me of the time jewel was confronted about her inane lyrics by Kurt Loder. Too bad he didn't interview alanis about "Ironic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluesky Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 It reminds me of the time jewel was confronted about her inane lyrics by Kurt Loder. That satisfied my irrational hatred of Jewel in ways I can't even express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Baloni Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Point is, John Cage blows. And since you like him, by transitive property of blowing....well, you can figure out the rest. Just simple logic really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 That satisfied my irrational hatred of Jewel in ways I can't even express It's not irrational at all That interview brun in pubix. I wish I had that on YouTube. That was such a burn, it qualifies as a 3rd degree burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Vivante Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Point is, John Cage blows. And since you like him, by transitive property of blowing....well, you can figure out the rest. Just simple logic really. I have no idea what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Baloni Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's not irrational at all Well there's something we can agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Pa Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) Man, I have seen threads wonder on and off topic, but this one should be nominated for some kind of award. Edited February 18, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_Peaches Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I agree, Jim. I don't know what it should be called, but we've already got the symbol to put on the trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Pa Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 LOL Peaches. I'll be looking for that one.. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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