scott

and as far as definition of 'overrated' I would say that in terms of music, it would be a group or individual being given undeserved credit for what they create and how they play. Nothing more. To get into 'trendiness' or 'how hip' or 'fanbase' is a distraction, a non-musical, non-sensical musical rational. That's where we run into the indie-rock quality math dillema, where it appears that the quality of the band is inversely related to the number of listeners. So the best indie band in the world is some piece of poo garage band that is completely unknown to everyone but themselves. So, for a band, such as Radiohead to be overrated, one would have to say "Johnny Greenwood is a better composer than Beethoven" That would be overrating "Thom Yorke is a better Composer than Tchaikovsky" again, false "Radiohead's compositions are on the level of Aaron Copland" Fair to say "Radiohead have made some of the best music of the last twenty years" Fair to say "Amnesiac as a jazz records stands up very highly in the modern jazz era" I would say yes, Now, those above statements are all debateable, and not set in stone, but what's important is that I am 'rating' Radiohead by their musical merits, not by how many fans they have.

But the fan base isn't massive it's the same size as pavement only slightly larger in the grand scheme of things if one includes the Ok Computer phenomenon in the equation. The press is simply because they're awesome, the purpose of a critic is to take music they think is awesome, in relation to all the music they sit around and listen to all day (it's their job) and tell people "Hey, this is awesome" Pavement also receives pretty favorable press, and when the opportunity arises the music journalists give Malkmus as much time as they can get him. Now of course Pavement isn't the smallest band I can think of, but I think they set things in perspective pretty nicely. Oh, and Malkmus opened for Radiohead for the Hail to the Thief tour.

Well, Ok Computer is their biggest selling album and it's 2X platinum, which means it has sold over 2 million, but less than 10. Kid A and Pablo Honey are both platinum, meaning between 1 and 2 million those numbers are purely the result of OK Computer fever, as Amnesiac on are gold albums The Bends is a Gold album meaning it's sold less than a million So, if we ignore the huge success that was OK Computer, then the Radiohead fanbase (those that are dedicated enough to buy albums) is pretty much exactly the same size as pavements. OK Computer's sales would be roughly 2.5 to three times bigger than Pavements fanbase. So, Radiohead is not very large at all it's just that their fanbase is incredibly active and not as....lazy.... as say Pavements. There's also an illusion created by the fact that Radiohead receives an a**load of press

and just because one doesn't understand the theory behind a song, doesn't mean they don't get the song see, theory is meant to be tool to help the musician write a song, using a set of guidelines (never really rules... guidelines) Then those guidelines help write a song the end product is a song, a melody some harmony a piece a work of art. It is not theory begetting theory. That's where jazz has it's downfall, as some compositions will get kind of up inside itself, and they become something for someone to 'get' that the point of the song is that a minor A with a sharp five is modulating to a major C# with a flat nine. The song may still sound great, but the musician and some in the audience will insist that the listener must discern the flat nine and know that it is, in fact, a flat nine to understand the true intent or beauty of the piece. Where music is more reactionary, the listener should take whatever bits of composition out of the whole that's why those romantic symphonies were so large and complex, little bits of goodies hidden in the subtext to be picked out and enjoyed for individuals to listen to individual parts dissect them put them back together into the whole be blown away. I mean, regardless of the knowledge of the specific tonality of a chord or the major-minor quality of it the listener is going to hear the same tone it may be harder for the un-theoried listener to replicate said chord, but it's not impossible but it's definitely not impossible but they can definitely 100% listen to the music and enjoy it. If music was all masturbatory, and required a musician to listen to it and 'understand' it then the audience for music would be very small. It's an unfortunate crossroads we stand at See, we have so many people that don't know anything about music and don't take the time to even listen to it they don't play it they don't listen instead they make the choice to listen to bottom of the barrel top 40 Clear Channel radio cuts. Then we have the 'educated' (whatever) who play, listen, seek out but have turned it into kind of a contest a kind of 'elitism' off, that turns off the average 'radio group' from listening to the prime-rib this group is doling out. Then you have the middle of the road, the people that don't really know much about what goes into a song, the terms, the formulas, the modulations, but they've taken the time to listen, and listen a lot. This is the most important group, without them those that study and play would have no continuation, they would die out without any sort of support and that would be sad. Unfortunately this group seems to be shrinking. As of this moment, there are plenty of players, loads, thousands, not in short supply. But those who listen, that precious middle group, is waning. And the large, easily satisfied, mass grows and grows.

but they are pretty exclusive and independent, they just get a lot of press. Their core fan base is about the same size as Pavements. And technically anything that isn't classical, jazz, or folk is pop music so be it 'indy' 'alt' 'shoegaze' it's all pop music. But technically since radiohead has some jazz stuff, they would be a jazz group that plays pop songs or a pop group that plays jazz songs either/or.

There's a large number of people that buy Radiohead albums and nothing else really the reason they sell so many albums is because of this incredibly dedicated base of about 750,000 people. Now, when 750,000 people buy your album at once when it is first released, then you have the #1 album for a week which, makes you famous. Then there's a trickle of people who buy it, simply because of marketing, or they've heard a little radiohead before (Karma Police or High and Dry....) or they saw that it was the number one album and picked it up. Or it could be hold over from OK Computer, an album that was very appealing to everybody, and continues to make new Radiohead fans today. But, there numbers come down to that dedicated core of people. Secondly, it's kind of snobbish to say that the average person cannot 'understand' or 'enjoy' radiohead, they make music, very nice, very good music, something that anyone can enjoy. And it's those kinds of 'You can't get it' attitudes that (help) prevent people from either listening to Rdiohead or enjoying it. On the other hand sometimes people don't take the time to listen to anything that falls out of their paradigm. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

......Blister in The Sun by the Violent Femmes? ........

Thank Jeebuz for the internet LOLZ

I'm sorry ... I dunno if it seems like I just wanna talk about myself sometimes I just wanna let the forum know that I'm making music and sometimes it feels like I'm shouting into a mirror if at times I've seemed forceful, or megolamiacal I was simply trying to gather attention with flashy titles and i know it's better to catch flies with honey rather than vinegar but, I know that in this modern era controversy gathers attention. And I just want to be listened to.... and the internet is one of few safe ways to get some listens. Sorry everyone. I just wanna make muuuusiks.

Thanks that's kinda what we're going for ...as bonus information I guess.... when we have the words Ready? Ok! we go into this part, where we let everything fall apart and get off-time and tempo and then ask again Ready? but now the response is No, Not Yet then things get together again and again the question is asked Ready? OK! and into this big majestic instrumental we thought it was neat.

To the Myspace Page check it out, it's called Melody A www.myspace.com/somethinglikesymmetry

oh, and as a real awesome closer, Kaki finished her set with a cover of a German heavy metal band no idea what the band was but I'm pretty sure the song was called dogs and horses. ....It was the coolest thing I've ever seen

I've always found the name Sonic Youth interesting not so much for the name itself, but for the fact that Kim Gordon and Thurston Moore are both 50 now, but Thurston especially, still likes like a lad in his early 20s.

Wild, experimental jazzy sonic youthy stuff, followed by Folk Rock Genius-tude YES! So, Kaki King's band was superb, she was amazing, nailing huge sweeps and working all over the place, her backing guitarist and keyboardist were putting the punches in just the right moments, and her drummer... phenomenal, restrained for long periods of time, unleashing monster beats at the perfect moments. Then The Mountain Goats came on, and John Darnell ripped thru a set that had to be at least 25 songs, all while looking like the happiest man on the planet. As a treat, Kaki came out and played guitar on 5 or 6 songs, working in some steel-pedal on a couple. Really great show, spectacular and it was only 11 bux score.

You can put a linux OS on an old (I mean old) beater computer, and it will run pretty much as good as a Windows XP box. But Windows is inefficient, hampering to creativity, the code is unaccessible, and it is expensive. Not to mention with the Windows EULA, I would have to buy the same piece of code multiple times to put that same code on multiple computers. So, anyone who uses the system, should be aware that they are vulnerable to attack, that their system is not up-to-speed, that there are better options out there, are not enveloped in some sort of 'magic bubble of innocence' they have bought into the machine, they know the risks. It's like putting money into the stock market, there is no 100% guarantee that your assets are going to be safe. As far as trying to feed me the idea that I'm going to run some sort of small business that turns into a multi-media-market-super-conglomerate. A)Not gonna happen B)With advents in technology, and new emphasis on local business supporting local markets, there is no need for a business to expand beyond a small home outfit, in fact, it would be irresponsible to expand. Anyone in town can come to the local headquarters, and anyone from out of state who is so attracted to the product can make use of the internet.

Linux is free. Windows is expensive. 'Innocent' PC users are not innocent, they have eaten the filth that Bill Gates has laid on their plate. It's a monopoly, they withhold valuable coding from the public (see open source) and make it a royal pain for anyone who wants to use their computer to it's fullest potential. Am I going around writing viruses and spreading them around? No It's just a false-hood to assume that those who do are targeting users, they are collateral damage, not in all cases (credit card phishers) but in most.

Some will spread virus for the 'thrill' of destroying someone's personal property. But the larger goal and purpose is to destroy a monopoly. The vast vast vast majority of virus are written to attack Windows Operating Systems. The virus is not attacking you, it is attacking Microsoft. It would be equally easy to write a virus for Mac machine or Linux box, but it would be pointless. If the computer monopoly were to be busted, and new companies allowed to write new Operating Systems, then not only would there be no corporate target for the upper-echelon Black Hats to target, but it would be that much harder to write code for scores of OS. At this very moment, every member of this Board is probably infected with a really nasty spybot, because there was a huge (virtually unreported) security breech in early 2008 at all sorts of mainstream websites (Washington Post, MSN, etc) that every visitor for weeks downloaded some nasty little (future) surprises. It hasn't been activated yet, but we could very well see a network of millions (billions?) of spybot computers kick into action, steal everyone's banking information, credit cards, social security numbers, everything. Then your entire hard drive could get fried to hell. So, if you're paranoid about virus. wise up get some linux support open source and stop giving your money and support to an inefficient corporation. Funny, so many people can be against 'big government' and get so upset that they have to pay their 'taxes' for social services they don't support, but happily fork over buttloads of cash to big business that regularly provide horrible service, and a worthless product. whatevs. I'm safe-surfin'

zing!

Holy crap I just watched the second episode this season is going to be awesome Best.Ending.Ever

It looks like Deb might have found a love interest, a non-serial killing age appropriate sexy Cuban Musician love interest at that!

My wiener.

Sure is. And by saying 'you probably haven't heard a violin played like this' is not saying it's any good. It's just more than likely something you haven't heard done before.

I don't know if this has been done, but I thought it would be fun to have a thread where we can talk about gear. You know, amps, recording stuff, instruments, effects. I'm really excited cuz I'm gettin' a shipment of new pedals today Two Ibanez DE-7 Delays, and a Boss Octave The delay creates a really sweet sound, and you can spin it to hell, I'm not sure, but poppin' two delays next to eachother should create a neat sound, if not, I'm gonna use the extra pedal for vocals or bass. The octave shifter is gonna be real cool, I can drop my violin down one or two octaves (or both at the same time) to get some big sounds. Those are gonna go great with my RC-500 Loop Station (which is an awesome tool) and my Ibanez Lo-Fi, So I can loop some octave drop violin, to get a cello-ish sound, and then use the delay and lo-fi to get a ethereal aesthetic over top.

Pow! Right in the kisser, right outta da park!

Oh, well Damage is much much better see Damage is this band of bros from SoCal who evidently get by thru the plagiarism of Stone Temple Pilots and Alice In Chains. Someone from or affiliated with the band comes here and posts something like "I've been listening to this band damage a lot recently, one of my friends recommended it to me after I was getting tired of all that 'standard' hard rock like Alice In Chains and Stone Temple Pilots, and Bro, let me tell you, I was blown away by their stunning ability to sound like a crappy version of STP... I mean, bro, how do you do that? How do you sound worse than STP??? It's like performance art!"